In 2022, young producer Caleb Lodish became an undeniable, unavoidable force in the local scene. A hard-working collaborator with an inner fire to make things happen, single after single, he was a one man heat wave all year long. This year, he’s aiming even bigger. With his new LP, I Expect Nothing In Return, he’s delivered a monumental tribute to Burlington’s new wave, a snapshot of this moment in time. In that respect, he’s just like dynamic new artists he’s working with, because we ain’t seen nothing yet.

VTHH: Since I first heard your stuff on Soundcloud, I've always been impressed by your ears. You have a great sense of both building compositions, and how to mix those elements just right. Were either of those natural talents for you, or was it a long road getting that sound to where you wanted to hear it?

It was definitely a long road getting to that sound, I feel like only in the past year my sound evolved to the point where I'm consistently happy with the quality of sound. I played saxophone in my school's band so I had a little bit of musical background, but it was definitely a long road to where I am now.

VTHH: Who are your biggest influences & idols as great producers?

My biggest influences right now in terms of producers is all the members in the New Focus collective. New Focus is a collective of a bunch of producers and artists from VT and NY. Being part of this collective and working with these amazing prods and artists is incredible. They always give me influence on something I can do, or improve on.

In terms of artist influence, I’ve been working with some of the members of 99 lately and they’ve been inspiring me to just try a whole bunch of new styles I’ve previously never thought of doing.

Also I take a lot of influence from hyperpopdaily, I just love how they just post whatever, and how they were able to build up a cult fanbase and do whatever they want and they are still respected in the community to an extent.

VTHH: What were you using when you first started making beats -- and what is your workflow like now?

I was using GarageBand and Looperman loops for about my first 6 months of producing, and it sounded just terrible. I got logic shortly after those 6 months and then I just started learning as much as I could. My workflow now is interesting. I try to make 2-3 beats a day, somedays I can't make any, and then some days I make like 8. The most I've done in a day was 16 I think.

VTHH: What kind of zone are you in that makes a 16 beat day possible? That's insane.

The day I made 16 beats was the day before the Destroy Lonely music video shoot. So I had to make him an entire exclusive pack that I could hand to him on a flashdrive. I worked non-stop until I could not function and my eyes hurt from looking at my computer. I was determined to get a placement.

I’ve worked with bigsmokechapo, and so has Lonely, so I figured it would be easy to get him to listen to the beats. I handed Lone the drive and now I am awaiting anything back

VTHH: Did you have any mentors along the way or are you mostly a self-taught monster?

I would say that some parts of my production are definitely self-taught, I learned how to use Logic all by myself, and I learned Pro Tools all by myself. I was briefly taught how to kind of mix vocals when I went to NYU for a month-long pre-college program, however, I did learn a lot through Teddy Baker for sure. Also through my time at the Burlington Technical Center, I had an amazing teacher, Jason Raymond, and he taught me so so much. I definitely would not be where I am right now without Jason.

VTHH: Did you make a lot of connections through Burlington Technical Center, too? It seems like most of the BTV new wave of artists have been in that studio space at one point or another.

I’ve made so, so, so many connections through BTC. I met Hakim through BTC, I’ve met Brazii, Ranch God and numerous other people. It’s an amazing space where young artists can be creative and explore the world of music.

VTHH: Are you mostly building your beats from the ground up with software instruments? Everything sounds very sculpted & tailored, very custom fit.

I either make the loop from a MIDI, (I’m still learning music theory so chord structure is hard for me) and then build drums around it, or I get a sample from one of my producer friends and then either change something up, or add something and then layer drums onto it.

I usually use VSTs my go to right now is Zenology, Hive, and serum. I kinda have a formula for my drums but I love to experiment with different genres and styles. Some days I’ll make an R&B beat, move to a Ken Carson type beat, and then make an 80s inspired funk beat or something.

VTHH: What can listeners expect from you in the second half of 2023?

Probably nothing. It took me like 6-8 months to make that album and I was so exhausted the month leading up to release, it was so stressful. So I'm taking a luh break right now. Maybe another single in the winter or fall I have no idea. But there is a song with HANKNATIVE dropping tonight and that one's going to be cool. I also have another one with him dropping under 99 Neighbors soon, so be on the lookout for that. I guess you won't get much more songs under my name anytime soon, but there are going to be a lot of songs I've worked on dropping in the later half of this year.

VTHH: Over the past year, you've emerged as a human hub for the new wave of 802 hip hop. Was that a deliberate strategy or a natural evolution for you?

I've been plotting on becoming a monopoly for production in Vermont for about a year and a half, and it's finally coming to fruition. I've worked with almost everyone, and my beats are everywhere. I'd like to think i have a good system with sending beats out, I usually send 14 beats out every week to a lot of people. Cast big net catch more fish. It's absolutely been a deliberate strategy.

VTHH: Do you have plans to expand your reach beyond the 802 next year?

I’m going to college for music business at Hofstra in the fall, so I plan to network and make music with as many people as I can.

Moose Got Tha Juice is a shapeshifter, a genre-hopping shaman dedicated to dancing on the pocket no matter where he finds it. If that all sounds like a little too much, you probably just haven’t checked out one of his projects yet. No surprise, then, he’s a lifelong student of music who loves every aspect of the game. We had a great conversation here, and it’s a perfect kickoff for the next season of the GET FAMILIAR series.

VTHH: What was your introduction to the Hella Fader family? Were you there from the start?

I’ve been apart of Hella Fader since the beginning, along with Juni, and Lewis (KISH4WN). My introduction to the group was when our friend Warren took Lewis and I down to the smoke shop Juni worked at. We would start going what seemed like weekly to kick it and spit some freestyles then slowly started to hangout outside of the shop. Juni would bless the gang with his amazing cooking while we would all chill, smoke and listen to beats with each other.

VTHH: Do you recall a specific point when a young Moose realized he wanted to spend his life making music?

I really realized it when I was about 10 years old because I recorded a happy birthday song for my dad at the Boys & Girls club. Seeing the joy it brought him gave me the confidence and courage to try and achieve that from more people. I’m very thankful for that because it opened my eyes to so much that I could achieve if I worked hard enough and stayed focused. When I started hearing feedback from the people I looked up to in the music scene I started to take myself even more serious.

Hearing that I’ve been improving and getting better keeps me going on top of other things, but the support from the fans and my close friends and family is what keeps me going because I’m not doing this for me, I’m doing this for everyone I love so I can show them w e all can achieve our dream it just takes patience and hard work.

VTHH: Your style is a wild diverse gumbo. What is your biggest influence that absolutely nobody would ever expect?

This is a hard one, but honestly I would have to say the two hands PierceThe Veil and Sleeping With Sirens. The two of them really inspired me to start writing and wanting to actually have a band. I didn’t think that could work out so it eventually let to me writing raps and freestyling with my friends. Now ten years later I’m here, and damn what a decade it’s been.

VTHH: You've always had top notch sound quality on your releases; that's one of the things that really distinguished the whole Hella Fader camp to me right off the bat. How involved do you get with the technical side of mixing and engineering your work?

To start I know I can speak for all of us when I say thank you we really appreciate that because we’ve worked very hard to get to where we are sound wise.

At the start we would send our songs in to Zach Crawford and he would mix and master our tracks. Over time we started to learn a bit on our own, Lewis and I would start to engineer for each other and Juni. Once that started there wasn’t really stopping us. We started pumping out a lot which made it hard to afford sending Zach every song we did so we started to really put in work to get it sounding well ourselves. I started to dive really heavy into the engineering aspect after learning I had a good ear for those little noises and really found a passion for it.

VTHH: Would you be interested in pursuing audio engineering as a career, or is that just a means to an end for you?

That actually is one of my main goals to be honest. I want to make a career of my songs but at the same time I would love to be the engineer people run to when they want a song done. I love making music wether it’s someone else’s song or my own, just the feeling of creating art and seeing it make people feel some type of happiness makes me feel great.

VTHH: I respect how cohesive your projects are. In recent years it seems like you've gotten really focused on delivering a full album experience, proper old school LPs. Was that because you were raised on albums, or is there a business strategy there, too?

I was raised with artists dropping full length albums as well as mixtape after mixtape. With that I wanted to capture a certain vibe or general concept to my projects, so I usually begin with the name of it and then try to build around that. I feel having full length projects increases the chances of someone liking at least one song (hopefully more). My goal is to try and have something for everybody, but still keeping the overall concept of the project the same.

When it comes to a business strategy, I really don’t know what I’m doing. I release music the way I watch the “bigger” artists release theirs, a couple singles then the whole project. Numbers don’t really bother me and aren’t the goal I’m just trying to inspire the youth and even the people older than me to know that anyone can do this if you practice, work hard and stay dedicated to the art and love of music.

VTHH: When System Overload dropped, I was extremely impressed with how mature and polished it was. But it also made me wonder what the road was like getting there: how long had you been doing the trial and error of home demos & experimental tracks before you reached that point?

Honestly it feels like forever, but I would say I was messing around for about a year before I found the sound I wanted on my own. To be real the whole System Overload project was written in a night back to back, one after another. Then I recorded them all 2 days later, so it was a little easier to capture and create the same vibe for every song.

It took a lot of time to get what I wanted out of my production. A lot of nights without interaction with my significant others so I really take my time seriously when I create music because there is NO time to be wasted in this short life.

VTHH: What was the process behind assembling More Than Moose? Were there a lot of songs that didn't make the cut, or were you focused on making music explicitly for that project?

The process was actually very fun. I was trying to keep a similar but unique vibe to each track and there were a few that got left out but it’s because they fit better with other songs so they’ll still see the light of day in time. I mainly wanted to show my range of genres and styles that I could pull off so people can fully understand I am more than Moose, I don’t consider myself a rapper because I’m an artists at heart, no matter the medium.

VTHH: How did your connection with Yung Breeze happen for that "Malibu" joint?

Oh man, my boyy. Facebook. It honestly was a blessing. He was doing a livestream where artists could submit songs to have played and an honest opinion/review to follow. He was really impressed with one of my other songs “Like Me”. He originally wanted to feature on that song since it was unreleased when I had sent it to him. I decided it wasn’t the one for him I knew we could do better. When I had finished recording Malibu I thought I had it finished as a solo song, but I’m so happy I was wrong. I again submitted this song to the livestream and he was blown away and the energy he gave back was what made me really think about it. He had asked me over the course of almost a year to keep being on it and I just had to make sure he really wanted to do it and not just off the hype of hearing it. We talked a bunch and when he sent his layers back I couldn’t stop messing with it and had it back to him in days. That really was the start of something great, now having met him and Sam Martin in person the work is never gonna stop.

VTHH: What are you cooking up for 2023 right now?

Currently I’m working on project titled, “Dying 4 Love”. Over the past 5 months I’ve been going through a lot of mixed emotions. With the loss of friends, relationships and my past self, I have been growing into a new version of myself that I couldn’t be happier about. It’ll have an R&B/soul vibe on top of the classic “Moose” sounding tracks where I try to express my emotions on these tracks in a way I haven’t yet before. You guys are really gonna feel me on this one.

Photo courtesy of Luke Awtry Photography

Jim Lockridge is an absolutely essential part of 802 music history. Big Heavy World has been on the front lines for decades, providing space, support and training for generation after generation of Burlington artists, and he’s been showing up day after day to keep that organization running.

Lockridge has a lifetime of experience to share and he’s generous with his time — that’s such an understatement it might as well be a joke. This is a wide-ranging conversation, covering the past, present and future of the BTV music scene. Even more importantly, though, we’re talking about the cultural infrastructure that makes a music scene truly thrive.

VTHH: It seems like, in every aspect of your busy life, you're driven to serve your community in a meaningful way. What do you attribute that to? Was it parents, mentors, or just always intrinsic to who you are?

Jim Lockridge: I guess I don’t think of ‘meaning’ as something separate from life. My work is inspired mostly from a burning regret that I didn’t learn until later in life that as an individual I could and should affect things. Some people — like Andrew Smith of Good Citizen — set an example of being analytical and critical (humorously) as a natural and acceptable way to be. That wasn’t obvious to me, raised in a straight-up middle class setting, accepting all the normal expectations of society.

Over time I grew into realizing that everybody’s voice has a value, that their personal human experience means something even if it doesn’t match up to our inherited cultural framework. I ended up feeling for people who society marginalized, and realized that empowerment and self-confidence is something we should all learn when we’re young so that we have a defense against all the systemic injustices that pile on us.

In my personal history, the lid really got pried-up when I intersected with members of the local hardcore punk community. That subculture modeled an ethic of bold social critique that gave a license to speak truth to power, etc. I remember seeing the first ‘XXX’ on hardcore show posters and wondering what it meant; this segue in my life stuck in my mind. The D.I.Y. and activist ethic fed into Big Heavy World. I learned a few lessons over time, too, about not just being a critical thinker, but having a responsibility to be a critical thinker, especially when you might be the person who can prevent harm. I wrote those things down. I’ll share those even though they go on ridiculously long:

No matter what your subculture stands for, you still have to make your own decisions. Wearing the uniform doesn’t indoctrinate you; living a compassionate, conscientious life does.

It’s a responsibility to engage the world with your intellect; be prepared to witness and respond to ethical issues.

Being a musician gives you privilege as a communicator; you have to live up to the values that people think you represent.

Our culture has moved toward people feeling entitled to act as though there were no guidelines for civilization. Put some effort into learning what generations of people have thought justice should be.

Judges are elected; mediators are trained — what are you? Know your limits and steer issues toward the right resources.

It takes work to live up to being fair and having a better future and it starts with deciding that your actions will make it happen. Joining a subculture isn’t a shortcut.

Humanity is more complex than anything people will experience in a single thread on social media. If you don’t know the people, you might not know the problem.

Reflect on your own motives — are you living up to your own values, or is a sense of righteousness getting in the way? Is a need to stand out as a champion more important to you than creating actual paths to justice? A mis-match between your values and your actions could make you a hypocrite.

People will betray you or their community, on purpose or without intending to. Learn from everyone; blindly follow no-one. Even people who think they are right can make errors and harm others irresponsibly.

The path I ended up on — whether I’m good at it or not — was to realize music reflects who we are, and to invest my energy in letting music be the excuse to build community, reflect diversity, pass along a sense of self-confidence and empowerment and community to others, mostly younger people.

VTHH: Do a lot of your alumni volunteers go on to careers in the music industry?

Jim Lockridge: Some do, following their passion. Big Heavy World is a platform for many kinds of skill-building, from business and marketing to research, writing, broadcasting, and cultural preservation. Not everyone works here to follow a path to the music industry, but the music-related environment adds quality to their experience as volunteers.

VTHH: When you started Big Heavy World, were you already seeing the big picture of what it could become, or was the focus just creating a website to cover local music at first?

Jim Lockridge: When Big Heavy World launched in April of 1996 it was a website about local music — an encyclopedia where we translated local bands’ press kits onto the World Wide Web, a whole new communication medium back then. I was a graphic designer for my job and it was natural to want to explore the web as a creative outlet.

But almost as soon as it started, people were helping as volunteers and we started doing other projects, like large-scale live events, compilation CDs, and live streaming (when that tech was still being invented). We were getting Vermont music into portable MP3 players when they first appeared, with companies loading it onto players new in the box. We got Vermont music into digital distribution when that industry first developed, and were always friendly to emerging technology when it could help promote local music. We didn’t see a ‘big’ picture, for sure — we just moved toward more things, mostly because everyone had fun doing that. There came a point when we had gathered hundreds of CDs and realized that we had a responsibility for an archive. That archive has about 5,000 Vermont recordings now.

Eventually the organization became a nonprofit organization, formally. Our goal was always to support every kind of music — every genre, all skill levels — and we didn’t want to end up excluding anyone because of a profit motive. All the projects we do generally fit into a community and economic development + cultural preservation mission. We learned that was equivalent to the music offices, or ‘music development offices’ of other states and big cities. So we self-identify now as an independent volunteer-run music office.

VTHH: With most of the other big music offices, the focus is very much on the economic development aspect. I know Big Heavy World has a much broader bottom line, but I do wonder: what do you see as the most important missing pieces for the business of music here in Vermont? Do we need record labels? More artist managers? More stages? Or do you think we're built out pretty well for such a small state?

Jim Lockridge: Personally I think that the wisdom to answer this question won’t come from one person. In 2022, we’ll be working to bridge different regions and industries of Vermont’s music sector, to build a better understanding of what it needs by aggregating everyone’s experience, from across the state. The USDA is helping us with this, funding a public directory of the music sector that students at NVU Lyndon will be researching. Big Heavy World will be convening the equivalent (in other states) of a music commission, but with an inclusive, open-invitation to participate.

We hope community builders and leaders in the state’s many musical subcultures will each bring their worldview and sensitivities to that conversation, where we can package needs, wants, and opportunities to present to advocacy groups like the Vermont Creative Network and policymakers like the legislature. It’s a collaborative approach that will be validated by its broad engagement; the music community should have a more powerful voice coming from it.

Identifying structural needs and opportunities is one thing, and also complementing that energy is the universal benefit of changing economic and government relationships to music. Civic leaders at the town and state level should be recognizing music as a resource for community-building. Music is a vehicle for sustaining a sense of belonging and having confidence that our human experience is worth sharing with each other. This is fundamental to being a healthy society.

Music hasn’t been a priority — seemingly in any sense, ever — of the economic development strategies of the state. We’ve been advocating for state leaders to value music in apparent ways, like demanding use of original Vermont-made music in marketing contracts for campaigns that promote the state. Some municipalities include the arts in their comprehensive plans; the arts could be included in the strategic plans of more of Vermont’s 250+ towns and cities. Providing cultural resources to youth helps the next generation of Vermonters be more effective participants in society as they mature; our activism around this is inspired by and centered on 242 Main in Burlington, which has been a platform for reminding leaders about these values. Those are examples of steps toward music having the higher profile it deserves within the general decision-making by Vermont’s leaders.

VTHH: There is an incredible array of projects and platforms under the BHW umbrella, but I wonder: what is your vision for the next decade? Are there new initiatives you're itching to add?

Jim Lockridge: Thanks for thinking that way — everything that gets done feels like it’s just filling a need. We’re going into 2022 with a big project to bring people in the music industry closer together as a cohort to organize thoughts about need, wants, and opportunities that policymakers should know about.

The 242 Main documentary will be completed and we’ll be working to get it into festivals. We’re always seeking financial support for projects, that are all sizes.

I hope the Make Music Day festival grows even more in Vermont — it invites individuals or organizations or towns to make a day of live music happen every June 21 around the world. We brought it to Vermont and love that people come together wherever they are to make it happen, on main streets, libraries, parks, porches.

I do have hopes of bringing more and more national or international attention to Vermont and its music community. The state is always feeling its way toward an ‘identity’ and I’ve been a loud advocate for that identity to recognize how diverse and talented Vermonters are, rather than trying to land on a “Vermont sound.” We’re working really hard, and have been since 2016, to convince city leaders in Burlington to respect teens and give them their cultural center back, 242 Main. That’s balled-up with a big auditorium needing repairs, which is also a city responsibility, so the politics are large-scale for us. We proposed a Vermont Musician Laureate program to Governor Scott and have hopes for that to be made real, giving a lift to music in the eyes of Vermonters.

VTHH: Going through the Good Citizen archive on the site, I was struck by how much there was a sense, in the late 90's, that Burlington could be on the verge of becoming a hot new "scene" city like Seattle did — that it was about to become the place to be. Looking back, do you think that era's energy was kind of a high water mark for Vermont music, or does all that seem quaint and tiny compared to what's going on in BTV now?

Jim Lockridge: Yes, the 1990s were a super-special era. I remember it as being not only full of musicians with totally original sounds, but the bands would re-assemble and create one-night all-star lineups, so it seemed there was always live music that you had to see. It might be a blessing to us that Burlington wasn’t smudged by the music industry of the time; without large corporate kingmakers, everybody got to be royalty. There was a high energy then, for sure. I’m partial to everybody finding success by their own standards and for everyone else to accept those standards. Some people thrive as artists at basement shows; some need big crowds. Success can be measured a lot of ways and hopefully everybody can get a turn at it.

VTHH: One of the never-ending debates we have these days is who truly originated "Vermont Hip Hop." Dubious claims abound. As the curator and manager of the Tiny Museum Of Vermont Music History, who do you think was the earliest rap act in your archives?

Jim Lockridge: The way we do things at the museum is to write basic exhibit labels, then match a volunteer to an artifact for them to research and write a long webpage, then link a QR code to it. Eventually, a lot of people will get to explore music subjects and their good energy will add to the historic record in a deeper way, maybe finding answers for a question like this. Big Heavy’s a place where people get to find an outlet for their passion and have it make something that lasts like a good memory, new skills, or a cultural legacy we all get to share. My first Vermont exposure to Hip Hop (I’m pretty sure) was Belizbeha, but I don’t know where they found inspiration. I’d love to learn about the roots.

VTHH: You've been instrumental in quantifying the extent of Vermont's music business. What is your sense of how much damage the Coronapocalypse shutdowns have done here? Are we going to permanently lose venues and expertise in the short term?

Jim Lockridge: When the shutdowns happened, the loss of live music hurt a swath of industries, everything related to music, and it happened as a shock in a day. A positive consequence was the realization that musicians and these industries are all part of our social and economic fabric, which may not have been a conscious thought before this happened. It sparked the Vermont Arts Council and its allies to ensure that recovery funding for businesses was available to individual artists, too — a milestone for the way the government treated musicians within the economy. Big Heavy World has always spoken up to ask firmly for fairness in how different art forms are treated; the COVID-19 and Black Lives Matter experience are contributing to a lot more people realizing that equity in society is something we still have to work for. It’s been a license to have those conversations about how any system can be improved to be more just and inclusive.

Another outcome of the pandemic lockdowns has been everyone's capacity to connect remotely. People got literate in those platforms and now they’re effective for sharing between groups. We’ve used them for showcases, social, organizational and educational meetings. They give a community the power to connect across a wide geographic area without feeling odd about the use of technology to do that. That’s a nice lift to strengthening the relationships that make a community more effective at improving itself or changemaking. We also merged Zoom and radio broadcasting so nightclub DJs could sustain their dance communities, and teamed with Vermont Public Radio to host a high school prom and afterparty broadcast and stream, showing that in a time of crisis and challenges Vermonters can find new paths for healing what’s broken, with music.

I don’t think Vermonters will ever be held down by natural or man-made crises. I think in the end we value both independence and the commonwealth too much — we’re so natively innovative and grounded as a people, we’d win any fight like this pandemic, bringing individual and shared strengths together. Whatever gets pegged-down by COVID-19 will come back stronger in some way, especially if we learn all the lessons it gave us.

Heady Betty has been turning heads with a brash flow and commanding stage presence. I got an advance tip when her debut EP was about to drop, but since then, few artists in the 802 get more consistent word of mouth promo: whether it’s the audience, the promoter, or just the bar staff, the consensus seems to be that Heady Betty delivers a highlight set every time. People talk, bud. Which explains why she was part of a dramatic three way tie for Rookie of the Year in the first annual Vermont Hip Hop Awards.

So with VTHH getting back to full-time coverage, who else could I hit up for the first interview? You can catch Heady Betty at Zenbarn on Saturday, April 30th opening up for Cappadonna.

VTHH: Are you working on a new LP or EP these days?

Heady Betty: I’m working toward releasing a new album this summer. The project is in the final stages and I would love to have some new Betty for people to bump all summer long.

VTHH: Do you recall the approximate moment when you realized you were going to become a rapper?

Heady Betty: I was actually just talking to my sister about this, so it’s funny you ask. When I was in high school and she was in college, we were driving around in her car when she put on a beat and told me to freestyle. I didn’t step up and do it then, but I realized at that moment how badly I wanted to have the capability; I was probably 15 at the time.

When I was a junior, my friends in high school started freestyling and would diss me until I had to come back with something to defend my honor. My first comebacks were pretty bad, but I started practicing in my car and got better at keeping up in the group.

l recorded my first song 'Children' on GarageBand using iPhone headphones my senior year at UVM. After that, I knew exactly what I wanted to be doing with my time.

VTHH: Who are your biggest influences in terms of moving the crowd and controlling the stage?

Heady Betty: There are so many women in rap who inspire and influence me, but in terms of moving the crowd and controlling the stage, Megan Thee Stallion, Kentheman and Latto are artists I look to when planning out a performance. I watch videos of their live sets on repeat to see what gets the crowd excited and think of how to make it my own. I like to interact with the crowd as much as possible, I don't want to be the only one having fun on stage through the entire set.

VTHH: Coming from relatively down south, how was it adjusting to life in Vermont? Was there some culture shock or was it a pretty easygoing transition?

Heady Betty: Adjusting to Vermont was difficult. I traveled around a few months before coming here, so I had a dose of exposure to other cultures outside of my own, but it's my first time making a new home. I had never felt aligned with most people in the South politically or ideologically, so coming to a place where the general vibe is to accept others was a breath of fresh air. I felt out of place initially when I realized I hate jam bands, but I’ve carved out a mini community of my own here. I found some of the people I love creating with, and I picked up snowboarding because ‘when in Rome,’ ya know? I would not say it was easy, but the perspective I’ve gained coming here was definitely worth the struggle.

VTHH: Does it feel like BTV is finally getting back to normal?

Heady Betty: BTV was never normal, which is why I love it here. It’s constantly evolving, and it feels like after the lockdown was lifted, we emerged to find our old city in a completely new light. We’re all grieving heavy losses after the pandemic; many of us have yet to fully recover from how it de-railed our lives and plans. However, I believe loss brings the opportunity for new life and I’m grateful for the period of pause and reflection that rippled throughout the world.

I think as a community, we reconsidered what the needs and desires are of the people who live here, and even if we had to take a few steps back, I think we’re moving in the right direction. I see young, motivated people building in this scene and moving on to a larger scale, and succeeding. It’s inspiring to witness in the place where I’ve built my first home.

Last year, I got a friendly email from a young, hungry music video director named Kelly Butts-Spirito. He was racking up five-figure views from low-budget but well-done videos, and laying down the foundations of a career — and a brand, too, under the Love, Kelly moniker. Just under twelve months later, and he's busier than ever, expanding his resume and working hard to help the new wave of BTV talent reach eyeballs around the country.

This Saturday, it all comes together at ArtsRiot for a huge, packed show that will go down as one of the highlights of 2021. He'll be bringing in some big names and showcasing the scene that's been percolating through Queen City Kickback's secret house parties. It's free and it's all ages, so expect an equally packed house. Before doors open (at 7:30 pm sharp) Kelly took the time to explain his journey and his goals, and to offer a wealth of gems about getting started in an opaque and expensive industry, too. Dig it.

VTHH: Do you remember your first introduction to the music video artform? Were you hooked right away or was there a particular video that inspired you?

Kelly Butts-Spirito: I was first introduced to music videos by watching Odd Future music videos in middle school. I always was in love with their style, I loved Frank Ocean and Earl Sweatshirt in particular. I was definitely hooked right away to music videos and fashion. I love music, hip hop culture, style, fashion, videos and just doing weird stuff that's different. I was always attracted to stuff like Odd Future and people like BIGKLIT. I just like to fuck up societal expectations and go against the norms of society.

As a kid I watched stuff like Tyler, the Creator eating a bug or even as a teen seeing BIGKLIT drinking her own period blood never made me uncomfortable in the same way it seemed to for other people, I always just felt attracted to weird visuals and unique concepts. I think that's why I always kind of felt out of place in school growing up and its made me fall in love with NYC. So music videos just tied all of those things together for me because it allowed me an outlet to be weird and creative and make dope art with incredibly unique people.

VTHH: Did you have any mentors when you got started or are you mostly self-taught?

KBS: My brother had a big influence on me and my work. I have been big time inspired by Dextar Navy (ASAP ROCKY DIRECTOR), Cole Bennett of Lyrical Lemonade, Kidsuper (fashion designer and director of early Russ videos), Tyler, the Creator, Teezo Touchdown, Warren Fu (Doja Cat director) and a lot of other creatives that are pushing boundaries. I also had three significant mentors so far that I got the chance to work under, one is William Holby who was a film teacher of mine in high school another is Megan Tresca who was an art teacher of mine that really pushed me to lean into my artistic side. The third was Mikey Cosentino the CTO of RiTE media, a film studio in Atlanta behind a lot of the biggest music videos for A boogie, Akon, J cole etc. I interned for them this summer and Mikey was a mentor of mine. I also want to shout out BennyFlashh who is a Florida director that has done videos for Kodak Black and Chief Keef and he was the first person in the industry to ever hire me to edit for him.

VTHH: Was it hard to get a start without a reel? What advice do you have for aspiring directors trying to scramble their way up the food chain?

KBS: It was tough at first, luckily I had some incredible people take a chance on me when I didn't have much to show work wise yet. I think everyone always wants a video, it's just proving that you can be the director to deliver for them is tough. I'd say at each step in my career so far, it has been tough to get in the door, but I’ve always just had the mentality of breaking down any door in my way and just proving people wrong.

For example, my first music video ever was for Real Ricky because we were childhood friends so he trusted me and took a chance and it did amazing with like 13,000 views or something and no promotion or label anything. After that video I was trying to work with signed artists and no one would take a chance on me but I just kept spamming artists DMs on IG. I remember I looked at concerts in Boston because it was the closest big city to Vermont and found a Dave East show happening that weekend. I DM'd all the opening acts.

Out of all the DMs I had sent, one person replied. But his name happened to be Cruch Calhoun and he said, "yo I know you're young and inexperienced but your editing style is crazy come on stage in Boston and record the show plus I want you to direct my next music video.” So I drove 4 hours to Boston and waited outside of the sold out show for about 35 minutes in the winter before he sent someone out to let me in. I remebber standing outside thinking "yo what if he never lets me inside and I just drove all this way for nothing" but I had to believe that it would all work out and it did. They ended up coming out to find me and I ended up having a huge night.

I met so many artists, managers, promoters, videographers that I'm still connected with today. Cruch Calhoun has become a close friend and that night he opened doors for me that I had never been able to before because I was so persistent. The year after that show I was in college and DM'd an artist named Lonr. about 35 times before he finally replied to me. I would DM him about 5 messages for every 1 reply and finally he put me on the phone with his manager. The next week I was in the city shooting his Lollapalooza virtual set and one of his big music videos. He is also a close friend now.

This summer and fall I have been in the process of trying to land bigger budget music videos. I just directed a video for one of the artists I am the very closest with who is a Burlington artist, North Ave Jax. He just signed and we have built a lot of the foundation for our careers together over the past year in Burlington and New York. The video I just directed for him was my biggest video deal so far and I believe it will be another step to opening the doors to new opportunities.

So I think the mindset of not being fazed by rejection and being persistent is the key to continuing to move forward and take on bigger projects even if you think your work isn’t good enough yet someone might see it as amazing and its important to shoot your shot all the time because the only way to get better is to try new things and take on bigger projects. You will learn as you go through mistakes, but if you never try you will never learn the lessons you need to get better. My advice to anyone who is into video is just to shoot and edit as much as possible and take creative risks. I feel like the only way to get better is just to try new things as a director, videographer or editor.

VTHH: You've built a great platform and brand. Was that a deliberate goal for you from the start or did that curation just emerge from the networking you were doing and the need to get more exposure?

KBS: Thank you! I really appreciate that. It was my goal to be doing music videos and concerts but the whole "Love, Kelly" thing and my Youtube channel and Instagram sort of just came from artists having nowhere to drop their videos. I was able to provide them with that place, and I had also worked with some artists outside of Vermont so that helped as well. The Vermont artists have trusted my vision and allowed me to take risks on their videos that have allowed me to get bigger videos and then it has allowed the channel to grow, so it all just really ties into building itself. I am so thankful for every Vermont artist and artist outside of Vermont that had trusted me with their music videos.

VTHH: The upcoming show at ArtsRiot has a crazy lineup. Do you feel like you got involved with a thriving scene that was already there, or did a lot of these artists connect through you?

KBS: I think a lot of things are fully coming together in the Burlington music scene for the first time. I feel like there have been amazing time periods that I have gotten to feel the benefits of. For example in middle school I remember people like Sasha Travis and Vader the Villin doing crazy dope shit but there weren't enough people around them to really make it explode I feel like.

Then I think 99 Neighbors getting signed out of Vermont was so awesome and made a lot of people feel like it was possible to make music that would get noticed. I think it made people more invested in Vermont music, but they left and are doing their thing outside of Burlington, so I think even though they had such a dope scene around them it wasn't able to really reach all the way to put people like Jax in contact with connections and leave a long lasting structure for young Vermont artists to get connected and pop off.

I'd love to think that now artists have resources to turn to that will get them videos and connections and performances etc. I also think Rivan C. throwing shows have been huge for Vermont music. So I think there were definitely people that were doing amazing stuff in Burlington, but I feel like its always had a bit of a disconnect. Like I don't think there has ever been a time where everyone in Burlington who makes music and art and videos and pictures at all ages can throw down together and have real connections to labels and other artists for features, shows and exposure to the world outside of Burlington. I also feel like there has never really been events like this where bigger artists are coming here to perform with local acts and celebrate everyone together.

The scene is honestly so crazy right now, it’s so much bigger than any one person. People like DJ David Chief who is making insane beats that are running up millions of streams, to producers like Siilas, Teddy Baker, Yung Lu, videographers like the Brennan Bros, artists like Jax, Ricky, Rivan, Hakim, Kami, Brazii and so many others all coming together in a way that hasn’t happened before. It’s like everyone is on the same page, just building this community together without any cliques and stuff. The north end, south end and people from outside of Vermont are all getting together to be behind it.

Also UVM students are performing at the show and the dance group "The King Cobras" that went viral that is making a UVM dance group called "The Elites," and they are performing ,too. Like it’s crazy, everyone who normally doesn’t really interact are all coming together for this show, so it’s just a really awesome moment in time. It feels cool that I have gotten to work outside of Vermont and then connect people in Vermont to the work I’ve been doing. For example ZAIA (ATL based) has a huge song called “Blue.” Well ZAIA and I worked together all summer and he’s a close friend now. Kami called me and said "Yo ZAIA 's song Blue literally got me through my first break up. Tell him I love him." So I go, ZAIA listen to this kid he loves your music. Next thing ZAIA is messaging Kami like yo I like your music, etc. So its just an amazing structure that’s being built for artist to have connections.

As soon as their music is at the right level, all the connections will be there for them to be in the right rooms. I feel fortunate to be able to open some of those doors for people here who maybe didn’t have the same opportunities I did growing up. Its surreal what’s been happening. Like Jax label executives are out at Red Square with me talking about how they first blew up 6lack and Summer Walker. I mean it's just really crazy that stuff like that is happening in Vermont, and that there is talent here that is bringing people like those executives to hangout at Red Square because we are shooting at Als French Fries.

I think the talent was always here but now the eyes are finally coming, and the community is really backing it in a new way that includes so many people, not just artists but videographers, engineers producers, managers, etc. This year Rivan and I connected about shows, Jax got signed, and a few other things fell into place that I think has brought a lot of energy to the scene. It's amazing because it's really been so much bigger than music or videos for all of us. Its like a family. We all collaborate and we all uplift each other. Its like all the stuff you want to have in school but never happens like mentorship and brotherhood and growth all at once.

Also throughout this year so many other dope artists in Vermont have popped out that I didn't even know about, so it’s only growing and I think more people are getting inspired and wanting to be a part of it which is something I really have just been blessed to be a part of. I think North Ave Jax will be the best artist to ever come out of Vermont.

VTHH: The quality of your work has sharply escalated over the past year. Do you attribute that just to more experience, or are you more or less constantly testing out new techniques and ideas outside of paid gigs?

KBS: I think that video is something that really just takes time to get good at in terms of quality and the only way to get better is to go through the cringe fazes of not being that good. I feel like the ways I've been able to do bigger videos even when my quality wasn't as good was trying new ideas and being ultra creative. On top of that I always try to bring something to the table for the artist weather it is my personality or new styles etc. I think that the quality of work has increased with experience, more money, better gear etc but the creative vision is what has always set me apart even when you look back to my very first videos. I think in a few years my videos will be visually top of the line quality wise but my unique style and weird ideas will still set my videos apart no matter how high profile the quality becomes.

VTHH: A lot of great directors cut their teeth making music videos before they went on to make movies -- do you have ambitions like that?

KBS: Yes absolutely, I'd love to do short form documentaries for a newsroom someday maybe even make my own like VICE Media. I've been writing about my time in rehab and I've always dreamed about making it into a TV show. I would also love to go as far as possible with music videos. I want to be the best director the music industry has ever seen. There is no back up plan. I'm just sending it 24-7, going after my goals.

Shorty Bang is a recent addition to the Street Religion roster, but it turns out he goes way back. That’s fitting for a crew that’s always been more of an extended family. And his music is a perfect fit: brash, brutal, and deeply rooted in a 90’s kinda sound, when skills and authenticity still trumped everything else.

He’s dropped a steady wave of singles and EPs, but this week marks the debut of his first full album, Bristopher Walken, and it’s a serious statement. Here, we’re talking (butcher) shop about his motivation, his vision, and of course, Street Religion.

VTHH: Does being on the wrong side of the law come naturally to you or is it something you had to work at?

Shorty Bang: As far as the other side of the law, I went to state prison at 18 and didn’t get out ‘til I was 23, so since a young age I been like fuck the police. I literally spit from my perspective and from the things I’ve seen and what I’ve done, actually in life, so there’s no cap in my rap. The horror bars are more just because I’m a horror junkie, but every bar I dropped 'bout doing sum G shit, those is factual.

VTHH: You have dropped a slew of consistent material over the past year. Were you sitting on a stockpile of bars or do you just work fast?

Shorty Bang: I stay with a consistent amount of bars on deck. I probably write every other day at least, but Leg Day was on the spot. Yung Breeze made the beats on site, and I wrote to 'em organically. Same thing with the Blood Brothers EP as well as the Daywalkin EP. But my album Bristopher Walken is different. I wrote ahead and except for like one or two songs, I formulated my rhymes to the beat.

VTHH: Was Breeze your mentor in terms of the process and the craft behind turning studio sessions into final product?

Shorty Bang: Musically, Breeze is most definitely a mentor, but beyond that, he is my brother, I respect his guidance and his knowledge of music is far superior to most people. Being able to work with him on top of being brothers is just a bonus for me. Besides Jack the Rich, Breezy makes all of my beats mixes and masters my music and records it.

VTHH: Where is Jack the Rich from?

Shorty Bang: Rhode Island, but he's part of the So.802 team.

VTHH: Do you consider Bristopher Walken to be the end result of all the studio work you've been putting in and the lessons you learned doing it?

Shorty Bang: It’s the result of how much I’ve grown over the last ten months which to me is just on a whole ‘nother platform. I literally try to write consistently because it’s like lifting weights. I try to stay in shape mentally, so Bristopher Walken is me flexing on everybody. Really, like I rap rap, I don’t bullshit around, my punchlines is hitting and my beats are bonkers, feel me?

VTHH: You're definitely one of the most focused artists on the scene right now, in terms of knowing exactly who you are and what you want. What are your goals for 2022?

Shorty Bang: My goals for 2022 is to stay diligent, stay focused, don’t get complacent because I have so much material out. I’m trying to perform once a month and stay consistent. My next song is my best song, that's how I record every joint I’ve been making. I’m my own worst critic, if I don’t like it it doesn’t see light.

VTHH: How has it been doing shows? Was it an immediate fit for you? Do you think you're still learning every time?

Shorty Bang: I’ve only just started doing shows, and performing gives me that feeling in my soul that says, this is why you do this. It’s like floating on a cloud for me, there’s nothing else I’d rather be doing. But it’s 50/50 half natural but I know there’s things I can do better every time, it’s definitely a learning experience.

VTHH: How did you wind up connecting with the Street Religion team?

Shorty Bang: I’ve known Yung Breeze since he was 13, way before Street Religion ever had existed I was a street dude. Like I always could rap, but I never made a song until I was 37 and I’m 39 now.

I went to 656 Fest out in Maine and I realized in the spot that if I was gonna have to sit in a wheelchair for the rest of my life, I might as well do what I love to do and that is rap. Without rap I woulda ended my life, these is facts, like I put my experience, pain and life story and lyrical skill into my music. You have to listen to get it but I promise it’s there if you listen.

VTHH: Did you grow up here in Vermont?

Shorty Bang: I moved to VT in 2007 after I maxed out my prison bid. Initially, it was just to make some bread, but I ended up sticking around since.

VTHH: What are you cooking up after Bristopher Walken?

Shorty Bang: I got an EP with Just Cauz coming out called Just Bang. I’m hoping me and the rest of my team can get together for an SR mixtape, just the squad. I don’t know exactly what’s in store for 2022 but I know this much: Street Religion gone be right in the front of whatever is going on musically in this area.

VTHH: How do you feel about the rest of the 802 scene? Are there other artists you respect or do you feel like Street Religion has no real competition?

Shorty Bang: I like your line of questioning. The way I feel about the 802 scene is simple. I got respect for anybody that’s chasing this dream we call hip hop, feel me? I respect hard work and ambition. Artist wise, I fuck wit Jibba and Vazy, Just Cauz, Fresh, Dolla Day is a monster, but as far as competition goes I’m extremely biased towards a lot of music.

Honestly, I really only listen to Street Religion music. I feel like, collectively, we got something nobody else got and even individually we can stand by ourselves. Well, I can’t stand, but you get the point. I’m not saying people can’t get to this point but do I feel like people are at our level? Not really, I don’t.

Learic is an emcee with decades of successful experience and serious natural talent. Yet none of that adequately explains why he's such a fundamentally good dude. That comes from somewhere else, likely an awesome family and wholesome childhood.

It also doesn't explain why he's such a devoted and perceptive student of the craft, to this day. Many artists say they're always learning, sure, but I know a hell of a lot of rappers and very few of them are as relentlessly voracious as Learic. I get paid money to write about music and he still listens to more albums in any given year than I do. Way more.

What follows is, I believe, one of the best interviews I've done so far. I took full advantage of his generosity here, and we cover a lot of ground, including some crucial Burlington rap history, the long arc and impact of the Aztext, and especially, the beauty and joy of rapping your ass off. Dig it.

VTHH: You're a legend with the freestyles, and for good reason. Do you think the extent of your extracurricular activities, like writing, acting, studying cinema, doing improv, all help to inform that? Or is it really just like the muscle you need to exercise constantly to stay in shape?

Learic: I would say it’s a combination of both. One of the biggest contributors is the amount of reading I do — by consistently absorbing language, and different uses of it, I have words on my mind all the time. I’m also constantly thinking about which words or compound syllable phrases rhyme with each other. Sometimes these discoveries never make it into a verse, but because I’ve thought of them they’ll organically appear in a freestyle.

The study of cinema definitely helps, giving me options for analogies or references. I’ve always thought of freestyling’s relationship being similar to improv’s connection to acting. By developing the skill of spontaneous creation, and becoming comfortable with it, you can use it to further stimulate that creative spark in your craft, and really focus on being in the moment, which can help in multiple avenues, especially live performances. The only way I was able to get better at it was by pushing myself to get past that initial barrier of indecision or hesitation, and just embrace it — taking my hands off the wheel so to speak, and letting words arrive without forcing them.

By practicing it repeatedly, I was eventually able to get to the point where I could anticipate the next line’s rhyme scheme while I was still rapping the current line — and not just that, but think about how I could justify that choice by giving it substance, adding to the line so it’s not just there for the sake of rhyming.

VTHH: Something I get asked about, something that's come up in conversations with other Vermont rap heads and been the subject of many stoned debates over the years: Learic. Winning. Battles. Do you go in with bars prepared or do you just freestyle your performance?

Learic: As far as battling, the only prep I would do is right before the battle, after I signed up, I would look at the other MC’s that were there, and I would just think of things on the spot that I could say about them, come up with a connecting rhyme, and then I would just store it in my head for later if I happened to face them.

Everything else was all freestyling, but even with those prepped lines, I didn’t know where in the rounds I would use it, or how I would connect it to the rest of what I was saying, so it still was all very spontaneous. I have a love for being in the moment, the thrill of giving yourself the challenge of controlling it, and when I was feeling it like that, I was either gonna win or get to the final round and lose in a close battle. It was a hunger combined with the desire to win, and it used to give me such a rush.

When I started doing written acappela battles, it was a much different process. There’s multiple stages of writing, editing, memorization, and practice that requires a tremendous amount of dedication to pull off. It also just has a much different feel when you’re doing it. I think I still prefer the rawness of freestyling over a beat.

VTHH: Something else I've always wondered: was the DC / DMV rap scene ever an influence on you early on, or did you discover beats and rhymes in the 802?

Learic: I wasn’t aware of the hip-hop scene in DC/MD/VA when I lived there, however I first developed my love for the music as a kid there. The primary vessels for that were the radio station WPGC, which played all the classic hip-hop that was released at the time (1988-91), and Video Music Box. I would watch videos on The Box and when I saw Can’t Truss It, O.P.P., Mama Said Knock You Out, and Pop Goes the Weasel, I was hooked. I remember being fascinated by Treach’s flow and delivery, and Kay Gee’s beats, and I clearly remember taking my allowance, walking to Sam Goody, and buying Naughty By Nature’s first album as the first tape I ever owned.

VTHH: When The Aztext were percolating at their peak, it always seemed to me that you guys were working overtime to find new venues, reach new audiences, blaze a new trail. It's wild how many heads in the 802 scene today have stories of seeing you guys at, like, youth centers, church basements. Was that driven just by the need to find outlets, or was that also a conscious choice to bring it to audiences who might be hearing hip hop for the first time?

Learic: I don’t know if it was a conscious choice as much as it was a willingness to perform at any venue that wanted us. We went to school with a lot of the people who were running the Essex Teen Center, so when they asked us to perform in the town we grew up in, near the high school we went to, we were more than happy to do so. I remember those shows being some of my best performance memories — those kids listened to every word we said and were so psyched to have us doing a show there. You could feel the energy in the room, and it brought me back to when I was just a 16 year old trying to make music and go to shows myself.

VTHH: Who were your mentors and influences in terms of how to approach a studio session and get work done in the booth?

Learic: I learned a lot from working with a producer Jason Kush (Wrek), who Framework and I made an EP with, under the name Subliminal Messages. He had an awesome work ethic, and a vast knowledge of music, and was also just a really cool person. He was older than we were, and had more musical experience, and he was willing to share that with us, so he was my first real mentor in music.

Of course Pro’s influence was immense. His love for music, and being in the studio working on it, was infectious. We work well together, searching for the best idea, independent of ego, and it always felt like a collaborative experience.

Another person I learned a lot from was One Be Lo. The time we spent with him in our studio recording “Lettin’ You Know” for our second album was an educational experience. Just seeing his process, and how he would say each line of his verse like 20 or 30 times until he was fully used to all of it. His professionalism and attention to detail, and his commitment to quality, were eye-openers for me, and lasting contributions to my own recording approach to this day.

I’ve also learned different things from being in the studio with Dante DaVinci, Es-K, SkySplitter, and Jer and Eric during our Precepts sessions. Each of them had a different approach and influence that I was able to learn from that added to the experience of creating music with them.

The Aztext live a Club Metronome via Brian Jenkins Photography

VTHH: You've got a serious catalog and it's full of ambitious projects. At this point, do you feel jaded at all? Is it harder to grab your ear and your interest, or are you still ready to go on any dope beat you can get?

Learic: I wouldn’t say I’m jaded at all. I’m always down to collaborate with people. A lot of the projects in the later part of my career came from developing friendships with people, and being in the studio together just to work on a song or two, and once the chemistry grew, all of a sudden we were working on entire albums.

VTHH: Have there ever been points where writing or performing started to feel like a chore for you? Your catalog makes it look like you've never wrestled with burnout much, but is that actually the case?

Learic: It’s never felt like a chore, but unless there’s some sudden surge of inspiration, every time I sit down to write a verse I wonder if I’m gonna be able to think of anything new to say. It’s a constant battle I have with myself, and I’m always pleasantly surprised that there are more word combinations possible, and new ways to use the same words to say new things. Language and communication are a vaster ocean than we realize, and it’s all about just getting back in the ring and letting it happen again each time.

I love the writing process because I learn new things about phrasing and spacing during the editing phase, and just about making it the tightest it can be. It didn’t start out like that for me, but as I got older I realized it’s up to the artist to get the work to where it needs to be, and sounding the best that it can. These last two albums with SkySplitter and Es-K helped me with that immensely, really letting the music guide me in my writing.

VTHH: How important was it to have The Loyalists on the scene when The Aztext were getting started? Did that ever feel like a rivalry, or just a pure musical friendship built around love of the genre?

Learic: It was vital to have The Loyalists there for the origin of our group. We went to high school with all three of them, and the first group I was ever in was with Framework. We got to open for Black Moon and Ugly Duckling at Higher Ground when we were 17, and it was such an incredible opportunity for us as fans of those groups. Our shared love of hip-hop made us immediate friends, and eventually it seemed a logical move to make music together.

The Loyalists were also the impetus for Pro and I joining forces. We got to be on their first two albums, and when we got asked to open up for them at the release party for Get What You Give, we were on stage for each other’s solo sets, acting as hype man for each other, and when we were told by The Loyalists that if we moved to VT (I was living in NYC and Pro was in Rhode Island at the time) they would produce an album for us, we talked that night and decided to go for it. I’m grateful for their supportive energy and generosity because it’s really what set our path in motion.

I was incredibly inspired by what they were doing — the classic production and scratches, Framework’s style, breath control, and unique approach to rhyming (and his skills on the tables as well). They just had such a strong work ethic, and it had a huge influence on us. I would never say there was a rivalry at all. There was a mutual respect, and we’d all known each other for so long that it didn’t feel like competing, it was more of a camaraderie.

VTHH: How did you wind up working with the Loyalists on those early LPs?

Learic: The Loyalists reached out to me about being on the first album because we all went to high school together and were familiar with each other musically. Framework and I were in the same grade and became good friends our junior year. Our senior year is when we started doing shows together and released an EP as Subliminal Messages. E-Train was a grade ahead of me, and I looked up to him for his DJ skills and music knowledge. TouchPhonics I knew pretty well because we both worked together at the Inn at Essex and would always talk hip-hop.

When they reached out about being on the second album, I remember thinking how cool it was that Pro was gonna be on it, because he and I had been talking a lot on the phone about where we wanted to take our music when I was in NYC and he was in Rhode Island. So when that album release party brought us both to Vermont, it seemed like the right thing to do to join forces.

VTHH: Where was the BTV scene getting connected and doing cyphers in those days?

Learic: There were a couple different options for MC’s to find cyphers in those days: the most organized one was at Liquid Energy — this was an awesome weekly event where an in-house DJ would play beats and people would come out and freestyle or spit verses all night. The other option was at house parties. I remember being at one where I was going back and forth with members of Trauma Unit, and then also Terrell had a band and they would play at parties — he would reach out and let me know, and then I’d be able to show up and get on the mic.

VTHH: What happened between The Sacred Document and the Who Cares If We're Dope series? There is a very tangible difference in the tone you guys take between those two, you're both much more self-effacing, kinda world-weary, and there's also a certain bitterness about the industry aspects, too. I know that underground hip hop went through huge changes between 2007 and 2011, but I've always wondered what that was like for you personally.

Learic: After The Sacred Document, there were a lot of life changes. Pro and I were roommates for those first two albums and had the studio in-house to write and record any time we wanted. We moved out, got our own places, and with work and life in general it just became a little bit more difficult for us to find time. We were still meeting up, but it wasn’t that same level of all-consuming gung-ho energy.

After enough time went by, we knew we wanted to make another record, and also that we wanted it to be something different. I think there was that world-weariness as well that you mentioned, just from getting so close so many times to feeling like we were getting to that next level. With Who Cares if We’re Dope, I think that was the start of us realizing we wanted to make music because we love to do it, and to stop chasing and start creating it for the sheer sake of doing so. The process became a lot purer after that.

VTHH: When you look back at the span of 802 hip hop history that you've lived through, what are the turning points that stand out to you now?

Learic: There were definitely different phases, but I would say VT Union took the scene to a different level, just with their vision and focus, and the artists they were building with and doing shows with, and also Burnt MD did a lot for the scene as well, with his tireless hustle and grind in securing venues and big-name artists to help the scene grow. From a lyricism standpoint, I know you’re the one asking me these questions, but you are arguably the greatest lyricist this state has ever seen, so it’s safe to say that MC’s have looked up to your pen for quite some time.

From a live show perspective, you have to mention the Lynguistic Civilians — their energy was infectious and could keep a crowd going for hours. Subsequently, Mister Burns as a solo artist has contributed so much time and knowledge to the scene, helping it grow even more with his attention to detail and business-mindedness.

The Loyalists had one of the best live shows in the history of the state as well, and also demonstrated the kind of quality album an artist or group could release. There was no local group like them, where the MC and the two producers were also incredible DJ’s.

And, of course, 99 Neighbors and Jarv are taking the scene to the rest of the world in a very real way, which is awesome to see. So much talent, hard work, and commitment, and those are the ingredients for success, so it’s not surprising that it’s happening for them.

The level of musical excellence and precision that A-Dog represented and that his legacy continues to stand for, and the tireless work ethic and prolific production of consistently amazing material that Es-K brings to the table are a continuing source of inspiration for the scene and set a benchmark that artists aspire to.

The history of this whole scene has produced so many unique artists who have all contributed to its development so I wanna pay respect to everyone who has been a part of it, and continues to be a part of it.

These days, southern Vermont artist DalrealaFlex45 has been busier than ever, juggling his own music, working with The Horsemen team, and being a tireless advocate for some of the 802's most overlooked artists. Fresh off the release of his best project yet, The Manifesto, it was past time to talk shop.

As you're about to see, the man is a fascinating mix of provocation and diplomacy, deeply respectful of the local scene but still ready to agitate for improvement. That's nothing but a good thing, and this was an excellent, thoughtful conversation. Enjoy.

VTHH: Who do you consider your influences in terms of your style and approach?

DarealaFlex45: When I first started writing, I had a heavy influence from Bone Thugs-N-Harmony. Every time I bought one of their albums, on the surface, it was a mystery what they were saying. It made you pay attention in order to decipher their lyrics. This intrigued me to no end. In one way I didn't want to be considered a “biter”, so I approached their style, while putting some Southern Charm on it. The more collaborations Bone did, the more my musical library grew. They turned me on to The Notorious BIG, Pac, Pun and it branched from there.

My approach evolved over the years. Ten years ago you would have heard a different subject matter throughout my music. Seeing the music industry today, I feel the narrative needs to change. Awareness of what is going on in the world today is more important than making someone dance. I remember hearing a Cardi B interview. She said she was not responsible for being a role model to the young girls who listen to her music. I completely disagree with her statement. This is why the narrative and approach changed for me.

VTHH: What was your sense of the Vermont scene when you arrived? Was it obvious there was Hip Hop here or did it take awhile to find?

DarealaFlex45: I had no clue Vermont had a Hip Hop scene. It was not until I got introduced to live shows at Club Metronome in Burlington. Colby Stiltz opened the door and David Phair showed me more. I paid to have a spot on that stage. $25. I was under the impression, in order to be a part of the scene, you had to pay to get in. I know now that is untrue.

VTHH: When it comes to the southern VT scene, do you think the problem is just getting artists into venues and onto local radio -- or is there also a ton of undiscovered talent because of that lack of outlets?

DarealaFlex45: I feel Southern Vermont has some talent but the talent we have has nowhere to flourish. I have been put on to a location in Rutland, Vermont that welcomes Hip Hop. I was unfamiliar with the place but intend on establishing a good working relationship with them. Burlington is a hike for the artist here and it would be refreshing to have a type of venue where local talent can shine. Where the culture is accepted as it is in Burlington.

I see Southern Vermont being like the south was in Hip Hop, in general. When Andre 3000 went to The Source Awards and said “The south got somethin' to say”. Publications would barely cover the south. Great pieces of work get unnoticed which makes the grind that much harder.

VTHH: When I interviewed Just Cauz, he mentioned a show at Magic Mountain at the genesis of The Horsemen. How did that gig come together? Had any of you guys shared the stage before that?

DerealaFlex45: Nothing against my brother, Cauz, but that was not the genesis of The Horsemen. It was a great show but not the genesis. We would be asked to perform at different places but on separate sets. We would be placed one after another. We hung out so much outside of Hip Hop I just asked the guys if they would prefer me making a Super Set. The way I put the sets together, it made the DJ's job 10 times easier. It would be just one MP3 instead of 16 different files. So, we started doing the Super Sets. Hampton Beach, Keene, and Babes Bar. Super Sets were the formula.

Magic Mountain came about due to Hip to the Hops, asking my manager (at the time) David Phair. He got in touch with me about wanting to do a 45 minute set. In my infancy of performing, I was super intimidated by the size of the set. I got a hold of Forever Fresh and asked him to bless the stage with me. He was more than happy to help. Fresh and I killed that set. After we got off stage, the promoter asked if I had more material, because a group didn't show. Just Cauz and SirhcoBangz came to Magic Mountain to support. They were not on the card. I told the promoter that my team was in the building and probably had something. Sirhco brought his laptop, not knowing he would have to use it. He had sets for him and Cauz so they went up there and killed it. We then left Magic Mountain to go over to Donovans in Bellows Falls and rocked out with Street Religion and Raw Deff. That's how that night went.

The genesis of The Horsemen involved Raw Deff, Forever Fresh, SirhcoBangz and myself. We were at my house, making a track for my album, Best Kept Secret. That song is entitled “5 Oh Foe”. After we showed Deff The Minute Song, he was like “Yall should call yourself 'The 4 Horsemen”. We loved the idea. We filled Just Cauz in on the idea. He was game. The only issue was Konflik was involved with a northern Vermont group by the same name. Him and I talked about what we were doing. Imma real dude. Konflik and his crew had the name before us so I lobbied to change our name to The Horsemen. Everyone agreed and the rest is history.

VTHH: Is it accurate to call you The RZA of The Horsemen? What is your long term vision for the crew and the brand?

DerealaFlex45: I can't honestly say “I'm The RZA” of The Horsemen. I'm “Dareala” of The Horsemen. I honestly see The Horsemen like The Marvel Cinematic Universe. Started out with Iron Man, The Hulk, then Captain America, then Thor. Then they all came together to form The Avengers when it was necessary. We came into Vermont Hip Hop as four individual artists, coming together to make a Supergroup.

I don't claim to be a “leader” of the group. I let my dedication to the culture, my craft, my work ethic, and finally, my projects show who I am. I put the same effort into a Horsemen album as I do my own solo project. At the end of the day people will come to the conclusion they feel. All I know is if I have a goal, I want to accomplish that goal. I will be super focused on that goal. If that makes me a leader to some... I can dig it. As for the future, who knows where it's gonna go.

VTHH: Your latest LP, The Manifesto, covers a huge range of styles and feels. Was that a calculated move to reach multiple markets or was that just a reflection of your own taste and the music you love?

DarealaFlex45: Every LP I work on, I approach it like Quincy Jones approached Thriller, with Michael Jackson. So many singles that were great! The song placement in the track list is important! You don't wanna have one half, hyped, and the other half somber. I feel an artist should grab the listeners attention, out the gate! This is why “By The Hour (Flowers)” was the intro to the album. It's very lyrical and grabs the ears of the ones listening to the album. Then you wanna follow with a single. “GTFU” is a single as well as a statement track. It's kinda like “Beat Drop” from BKS.

I'm also an artist who wants to put my listeners on to the “real talk” of my content. Some people are not trying to hear conscious Hip Hop, but if you can insert the consciousness into dope beats, great rhythms and memorable cadences, those conscious lyrics will be overlooked and become embedded in their minds without them knowing it. LOL It's kind of like the Underground Railroad of Hip Hop. Wade in the Water style!!!

VTHH: Your team just delivered a heavy track for the NAACP down in Rutland, “Black America.” In the aftermath of all the protests and conversations that 2020 triggered, do you feel like Vermont culture has shifted and changed, or is it just the same attitudes as before, only with Black Lives Matter signs on their lawns now?

DarealaFlex45: I feel Vermont culture has changed in a way to where more people want to have the conversation. I feel as though more attention has been brought to the topic of black lives and the plight of the minority. Some would rather place a “BLM” sign in their front yard instead of going on the corner and protesting. Some do it for the trend. I can only tell you from my own account: I have seen the discrimination. I have experienced racism, whether in the justice system or the neighborhood; down south as well as in the Green Mountain State. I try to conduct myself as a student, learning what I can about myself and my community so people around me know it is ok to have the conversation. It's needed in order to heal and move forward. To answer your question, I feel there is a shift as well as a resistance to the shift.

VTHH: Do you feel your personal goals, in terms of your music career, have evolved and changed over the past 5 years?

DarealaFlex45: As I said in my track, “What If” off The Manifesto: “The older I get the more that I sit. Just think about shit and let my psyche wander a bit...” The older I get the more I want my message to impact someone in a positive way. I want people to be able to relate to what they hear. One thing I can't STAND is listening to “rappers” talk about things they do not have. Things they do not do. You know these people, personally, and you know they don't do 90% of the content they rap about! I feel it is dumbing down our culture.

When I first started in Hip Hop, I said to myself: “If I can make $80,000, to buy my Grandmother's home after she passes, I have reached my goal. I will do it for free after that.” At first, it was all about getting that money. Now, it's about the message. It's about showing people Hip Hop is not all about killing and jewelry. It's not all about drug usage and degrading women. Being in Vermont, Hip Hop is not automatically accepted as it would be in places like New York, LA or Atlanta. We are in a Bluegrass state. Our Hip Hop package has to be so attractive that even the Bluegrass lovers will respect our craft and respect our culture.

I remember when I put out “2018 A Slave”. Jibba The Gent called me the next Andre 3000, due to the subject matter I put in that song. I definitely took this as a compliment but continued to work to be the first someone and not the next someone. So, I continue to strive to better myself and my craft.

VTHH: For independent artists, the hustle is basically DIY everything. Out of that constellation of roles and job descriptions you have to take on, what are the areas you'd like to get professional, experienced help with the most? What do you think 802 is missing, in terms of our music business?

DarealaFlex45: With my music as well as The Horsemen's final project, I wear A LOT of different hats. What I try to stress to others is the importance of learning the steps as you go along. You know, why continuously send your stems to someone to mix down for you when you could do it, yourself? Instead of sending thousands to another person, invest that money into getting what you need in order to be more self-sufficient. I would personally like to get professional help with marketing and promotion.

I feel Vermont Hip Hop is missing exposure. There are a lot of talented men and women who pick up the microphone here. Men and women who adore the culture, want to learn from it, and most importantly, give back to it.

I feel it is missing true inclusion. It's funny to sit back and look at the Vermont Hip Hop scene because even though we ALL are underground... There is a mainstream in VT Hip Hop. Some people are invited to it and some are left to the underground. Some get more “props” while the others don't. I was asked by a guy I truly respect, as a person and an artist: “Why do you look for other rappers' validation?” I don't feel it is looking for validation. If Eminem put an album out and MTV didn't mention it, I bet he would wonder why. With a small number of outlets that highlight local Hip Hop, it's looking for the same inclusion.

Even among the most packed & diverse crop of young talent the 802 has ever seen, Robscure has distinguished himself with a prolific and adventurous body of work. Today, on 10/10, he's expanding that catalog a little further with the release of /SHō/, some of his most melodic and polished songs to date.

It was time, clearly, for a rap session. Here we're touching on his obsessive love affair with the genre, his process and inspirations, and how to find your place & your path as an independent emcee.

VTHH: Your music has covered a lot of ground already, from boom bap purist stuff to really introspective and nakedly political raps. Is that a reflection of your influences in hip hop or just a matter of who you are personally? Related followup question: is it actually possible to separate those two things?

Robscure: It’s hard to separate your influences and identify if you live and breathe your art. I’m naturally introspective but I also feel responsibility to speak on issues in the world around me, or at least convey my experience in a way where it’s not all about me. I don’t want people to go into my new music thinking they already know what’s coming. And to your point, I listen to everything from boom bap to nerd rap to spiritual rap to rap that’s arguably not even rap, so that influences my worldview and subsequently my variety of subject matter and styles.

VTHH: In terms of subgenres, lyrical lineages, where did you start? What was the moment where wanting to be an emcee really clicked for you?

Robscure: My cousin showed me Lil Wayne, J Cole, and Eminem when I was probly 10. I went to the record store with my mom and bought the explicit version of Tha Carter III and we listened to it together on the ride home. Big mistake. There’s a song on there called “Pussy Monster”. My friend got me into Kanye West when 808’s & Heartbreak came out. I wrote a few parodies to some of those songs using the personas of classmates as stand-ins for Kanye and his features. I got a kick out of it cuz it made my friend laugh. That’s how I started writing.

When I hit high school it became an outlet for more personal stuff. That’s also when I started diving deeper than the mainstream, and coincidentally the same era where the mainstream took a sharp turn. Hopsin, Em, and Royce Da 5’9” inspired me to go crazy with the multi syllabic stuff. But dudes like milo and Samsa and Open Mike Eagle who do more underground nerd rap type stuff gave me the courage to talk about whatever. I remember one day of junior year clearly where I came home, sat down, and decided to make a career out of rap. Never looked back.

VTHH: You've progressed a lot over the past two years. Do you feel like you've had some epiphanies about the kind of artist you wanted to be along the way, or is it more like you've built the toolset to become the artist you were always aiming to become?

Robscure: Damn I didn’t know you’ve been following my work that long! Bars is what drew me to hip hop so my first mission was to prove I got them. I’ll always be leveling up lyrically but right now I’m focusing on developing myself as a well rounded musician. To quote you, “good songs > good verses.” I’ve never wanted to pigeon hole myself so the variety of styles has been intentional, but the progression has been organic.

The past few months I’ve been thinking harder about the type of artist I wanna be, and two major inspirations have been TOBi for his versatility as a rapper/singer and R.A.P. Ferreira (fka milo) for his sheer lyrical prowess and the risks he takes sonically and in his content. My main mission is to make music people can connect with in a positive way. But stylistically I wanna do it all, and do it all well.

VTHH: Have you ever seen Ferreira live? I always love watching boom bap heads try to grapple with how much he subverts expectations of a rap show. How important is live performance to your process these days -- are you creating mostly for headphones and speakers or do you envision the stage when you're writing, too?

Robscure: I fuckin wish. Man is a literal genius. I’ve only seen videos. I made a beat for him and wrote some verses and sent him a demo, but it appears a collab is still far off.

I try to make my mixes translate well for any sound source. When I think about creating a 3D space, that could be something to get lost in on headphones or at a show. The biggest way the thought of performing factors into my process is making sure I can rap my verses all the way through without punches. It’s kinda silly if the song sounds seamless but then you’re gasping for air when it comes time to perform it.

VTHH: I thought Earth was a wonderfully cohesive project, some of your very best work. How did that EP come together?

Robscure: I really appreciate that. I hope my new project /SHo/ outdoes it but you can be the judge. Not gonna lie, EARTH actually came together cuz my homie Conor (@seecsart on IG) who did the cover art got me into Avatar: The Last Airbender, and that planted the seed to do a series based on the four traditional elements. AIR is coming in the next couple months.

VTHH: Your production and engineering are always on point and very ambitious, very musical. Do you have a technical background yourself? Are you a studio rat?

Robscure: That means a lot cuz those are the areas I need the most work in. When I started recording I had no idea what mixing was. Instead of compression I would painstakingly automate the volume of every vocal manually… literal months of my life I’ll never get back. Thank god for SkySplitter/Zach Crawford — he mixed my first project, but since then I’ve done most of it.

My technical foundation is all thanks to my brothers Space Cap (@space_cap) and Mentalien (@mentalienx) who did most of the production and engineering on my first album Long Night | New Day. I learned a ton from them and still do, but their biggest lesson was that you can teach yourself anything with YouTube and practice, so since then it’s just been a slow and steady learning curve. Production is still new for me, I don’t really know what I’m doing but maybe that’s a good thing.

I would be a studio rat but I can’t be cuz my setup is a tricked out closet at my parents house in central VT. It’s an hour and a half away from my apartment in Winooski so when I visit I try to record a bunch of stuff in one session.

VTHH: As a relatively new young artist in a claustrophobically small state, do you think you get more attention & acceptance here in the 802 or out in the broader world that the internet connects us to?

Robscure: I’d say more on the internet cuz the online connections online usually come about through a mutual appreciation. Don’t get me wrong, the local community has been extremely supportive and I’d be nowhere without my home folks, but there’s still a lot of people I know in real life who still don’t know I really do this. Or they pretend they don’t. But a certain level of dope is hard to ignore, and that’s the chip on my shoulder I need.

VTHH: Having made the trek up I-89 to Chittenden County, what is your impression of the BTV scene right now? Do you feel welcomed or are you still on the outside looking in?

Robscure: Honestly I’ve been a lowkey hermit these past couple years and I’m not as involved in the scene as I could be, so my perspective is limited. But I think it’s really dope. You have artists putting us on the map like 99 Neighbors and David Chief, and a ton of other young artists like Rivan C, Eva Rawlings, Asah Mack, etc and myself doing their thing and making a name. There’s also a lot of dope older heads and I sense a mutual respect between the generations which is cool. Dudes like Konflik (who has a new album) and Sed-One (rest in peace to his producer, the legend JL) have always made me feel welcome. And us younger artists tend to support each other a lot.

Side note- I am making a conscious effort to get back on the scene- I have a show at Babe’s Bar in Bethel on the 23rd and I’m trying to make something happen up here too.

Rivan C. is a young emcee who has been getting praised here a lot lately, so it was definitely time for a proper interview. As expected, he's an eloquent and thoughtful cat. Just about everything else about this wide-ranging talk, however, was surprising. Well, except for the part about him being a serious, savvy student of both music history and music business. There are a ton of gems here. Enjoy.

VTHH: To what extent did your dad's music collection shape the artist you are today?

Rivan C.: My dad has had me listening to all sorts of music since I was a little kid. When I was in elementary school, he would make me write research papers on artists like Sam Cooke, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, etc. The papers I wrote were absolutely horrendous, but the interest in discovering new types of music left a lasting impact on me. His vinyl collection is gigantic and he’s put me on to some gems that have certainly played a roll in the music I make. I don’t make my own beats yet, but when I start, I’ll have a gold mine of samples just waiting for me to tap into.

VTHH: Your music is such a fluid journey through different eras of rap -- but do you have a favorite? Is there a particular point in time you think influences you the most?

Rivan C.: Not really. My taste and my interests are always changing at a pace that I can’t keep up with. That’s kind of the reason why my projects tend to have such a wide assortment of different styles. One week I’ll be super into UK garage, the next I’ll be into chopped and screwed. I take a crack at making a song in the style of whatever I’m into at that moment, and if it’s good I just go with it.

VTHH: What is your creative process like in the studio? Are you a home booth type dude or do you go somewhere else to record?

Rivan C.: When I have a song I’m super passionate about putting out there and I know it has potential to do well, I try to record it in a studio so that it can sound it’s best. However, studio time can be pretty pricey for a full-time student like myself. I do a lot of recordings in my room with help from my homie Sam Mark (shoutout to @sam.mark.music).

VTHH: I love the energy and sharp lyrics, but what I really love is how cohesive and consistent all your projects are. Do you have a larger loop you share your tracklists and demos with when you're laying out albums, or is that is all just your own third eye horse sense?

Rivan C.: It’s hilarious that you say that, because creating cohesive projects is something I struggle with the most in my opinion. I’ve always had a hard time making songs with the intention of connecting them all in one EP or mixtape. I usually just make songs that I think would work well as singles and then try my best to make them connect after I’ve finished writing them.

VTHH: That last EP was such a sharp turn from the laid back vibe of the 2nd Teenage Apollo tape. What are you cooking up next?

Rivan C.: Right now I’m pretty focused on making high energy music. When I made Teenage Apollo Vol. 2, I was like a freshman in college and had only performed a handful of times. I made “Rewind “and “Elevator” after performing at a couple of basement shows and I took note of how the audience reacted to what songs I played. igotthejuice is a lot more energetic because I made a lot of those songs with the intention of performing them live so people could dance, mosh, and let loose. I’ll always make laid back music because it comes to me naturally, but I’ve been putting a lot of my focus towards making music I know people will turn up to.

VTHH: It seems like the BTV house party circuit is a completely different orbit of artists than what people see going to Nectars or Radio Bean. Is that accurate or am I an old, old man?

Rivan C.: I mean it sort of just depends on the age of the artist. I could understand why a musician in their 40’s wouldn’t want to play at a basement show. All of my music friends my age are fully equipped to do both though.

Usually when I do a venue gig it’s with the same people I do house shows with and then a couple of the older cats that have stayed rocking shows. Vermont artists are super versatile and can easily rock both. Also, you’re not an old man yet!

VTHH: Has the success of 99 Neighbors changed the way young hip hop artists in BTV see themselves? Do you feel like the national market is a more realistic goal, or at least, more accessible now?

Rivan C.: I think it definitely gives Burlington artists hope. Their continued success reassures our dreams that it’s possible to make a living from rap music. I don’t think their success makes it any more accessible though. They managed to make the right connections at the right time and took full advantage of them.

In my opinion, Vermont will never be able to consistently put rap artists on the map, because there are not enough people invested in the music business of hip-hop here. I’ve been looking for a qualified manager for like three years… it should not be THAT challenging. I am eternally grateful for the connections that I’ve made in Burlington over the past 4-5 years though. The people who genuinely care about creating dope hip-hop in Vermont, are what make this place livable. We just need more of them.

VTHH: In the talks I've been having around doing the Vermont Hip Hop Awards, one thing that keeps coming up is how the scene can sustain itself and keep growing. Do you think the older generations of 802 hip hop artists are doing enough to provide opportunities for young heads?

Rivan C.: I wish some of the older generations of hip-hop artists would put more young artists on bills with them. It can be a real eye-opening experience to perform at a larger venue, but a lot of young artists aren’t given that opportunity until they’ve been at it for a good few years. Es-K, Konflik, Rajnii, and some other artists from Burli gave me solid guidance and opportunities from the jump, which is one of the reasons for where I’m at right now. I can’t really speak for other younger artists though, It seems like there's somewhat of a divide. I’m not really sure who’s supposed to make the first move.

VTHH: You've built up a lot of momentum so far. What advice do you have for rappers trying to create a buzz around Burlington? What are the mistake s they should avoid at all costs?

Rivan C.: A lot of our rap idols will tell us that we can accomplish our dreams if we believe in ourselves enough. They also mention that it takes a lot of hard work, but they always fail to mention what that work actually looks like.

In my personal experience, you can’t make it as a musician by being just that, you have to be a hundred other things. Learn how to be a multimedia artist early on, and you will progress much quicker than those who stick to one job. That includes being your own booking agent, your own publicist, your own graphic designer, your own producer, your own social media manager, your own whatever. Like I said before, it can be pretty challenging to come by good people in the music-business in Vermont. You can fill those gaps by playing their roles.

Photo courtesy of Rico James

From his start with Lynguistic Civilians to his tireless solo hustle, Mister Burns has really put the 802 on his shoulders. He's always been an outspoken advocate for Vermont hip hop as a scene, always generous with his spotlight and his experience. Shrinks and nerds call this "enlightened self-interest" - recognizing that what's good for the larger community is good for you.

This was a long conversation but still, it hardly does justice to his longevity and impact around these parts. Just before embarking on his upcoming All Fun And Games Tour Vol. 2, he was happy to talk shop about the scene, the business and his journey through the hinterlands of independent hip hop.

VTHH: What was your introduction to hip hop?

Mister Burns: When I was around 9 or 10 years old I was dog sitting for my neighbors. They had a pool out back and there was a CD player with a bunch of CDs out of their case scattered on the table. I rummaged through them and among the No Doubt and Smashing Pumpkins was a CD with a drawing of a naked woman. Instantly I put that CD in and was blown away. OutKast’s ATLiens is still my favorite album to this day.

From there, I was fortunate to have friends with older siblings to put me on to the new music out. The Rawkus Records days are what really gave me the understanding of how Hip Hop was going to play a huge part in my life.

VTHH: What did the BTV hip hop scene look like when the Lynguistic team was coming together?

Mister Burns: The Hip Hop scene in Burlington back in 2009 was thriving. Not only was there a plethora of established and up and coming artists but it was a time where Hip Hop was more prevalent in the music scene. There have been a few cornerstone artists who took on the role of promoter and have been responsible for bringing legendary Hip Hop artists to the state and they were all active at the time. Plus being a 22 year old kid and just starting to cut my teeth as an artist, it was fun. No stress and all fun.

Photo courtesy of Precipice Music Festival

VTHH: Do you remember any particular turning point when you realized that Lynguistic Civilians was going to really take off?

Mister Burns: We did an open mic night at Manhattans and was booked for a residency at Nectars from the talent buyer seeing us at that show. When we did the residency and had huge crowds each week is when I knew we had something special. We had a solid following of friends, but that residency really got us a solid local following.

VTHH: Did your time in Lynguistic Civilians make you in the music entrepreneur you are today, or did you come into that group with a clear sense of the demands and responsibilities of business management already?

Mister Burns: I had a small sense of the demands and responsibilities but the knowledge and competence came with time and a lot of trial and error. When we first started out we were just having fun with no real direction of where we wanted to go.

We were fortunate enough to start getting big gigs early on and with that was the realization that we needed to be more polished. Not only with our live show and music but with the way our business was handled. I spent countless hours researching and learning from others but the time spent learning from mistakes is what put me where I am. Though I still have lots to learn.

VTHH: Who would you consider your role models, in terms of music business and how to handle your brand? Did you have mentors help along the way?

Mister Burns: You know I never really had anyone really mentor me or teach me their ways. Hip hop is competitive by nature and the business side of it is the same. Rightfully so because if you are getting the show or the placement you are ultimately taking that opportunity away from someone else.

I learned a lot from attending shows that BurntMD and Nastee put on. Learned a lot about merchandise and branding from N.M.E The Illest from down in CT. But mostly I just spent hours online researching and following others who were already going hard.

VTHH: What were the most important lessons you learned working with a group dynamic with Lynguistic Civilians and Cultural Chemistry? Is that something you'd want to return to in the future or do you prefer riding solo for now?

Mister Burns: I learned so much from being in a group like Lynguistic Civilians and tried to implement that into Cultural Chemistry. Both had so much talent and some of the best times I have had as an artist on and off stage. Being in a group with a lot of people is tough, especially for someone like me. I tend to handle all business and have a hard time leaning on others to get things done. That isn't healthy in any relationship and tends to cause friction.

Also, when being in a group and a solo artist at the same time it's hard to separate the two. Knowing when to book a show for the group or for yourself and having other members understand and stay supportive. Regardless of any negativity the positivity still outweighed.

VTHH: Are you working on a followup to Indubitably Dope?

Mister Burns: I have a couple projects that I am working on. My biggest downfall as an artist is that when I write music I am always writing to perform and never to record as I am always on the road doing shows. Though I have two solo albums they were always projects that I rushed to get out before a tour. They both sound incredible (thanks to Zach Crawford) but from a lyrical and structure standpoint I can't listen to them cause all I hear are mistakes and things I wish I had done differently if I had spent more time on it. So that is exactly what I am doing with these projects. I have some exciting features and am excited to release some new music soon.

VTHH: What inspired the rebrand from VMB Productions into Aeolian Sound?

Mister Burns: The name Aeolian Sound I had been sitting on for awhile and always wanted to make a project with that name. Through the pandemic and having time to sit and stew on things I decided I wanted to come back with my first shows under a new name and decided to adapt that. Having time to sit and think on it the name made more sense to me as a business venture more than a musical project.

VTHH: Do you think this COVID era is going to result in permantent changes to live music as an industry?

Mister Burns: I think it’s going to take a long time before things are back to where they were pre-pandemic. But I believe we will get there. It’s unfortunate that a lot of amazing venues and restaurants had to close down during this which were staples for traveling musicians. Especially the spots in “off the beaten path” markets.

But when things cool down those types of spots will pop back up. Venues are timid on even having music right now and if they do the guarantee money isn’t there as people are still timid to come out. That makes touring hard and even not worth it right now for some. We will get out of this it will just take some time.

VTHH: Speaking of "off the beaten path," I've always thought that was one of the most impressive things Lynguistic Civilians did: you brought hip hop into the boonies instead of just rocking shows in major markets. Was that born of necessity or did you want to pave a new path? Or both, I suppose.

Mister Burns: It was a necessity as we were all working full time and doing long tours was not an option but we wanted to play as many shows as we could, so we needed to be able to hit as many places within a 4 hour radius as possible.

I also wanted to pave a new path. We were fortunate enough to break venues/restaurants who always had a "no Hip Hop/Rap" stigma to them. One thing that was huge for us was when we added Taylor Whipple, our drummer and I started billing us as a Funk/Hip Hop band. That opened a lot of doors for us. It wasn't misleading as that was exactly what we were.

VTHH: You may have seen more opening sets than anyone else in Vermont. What advice do you have for young artists trying to hone their live act?

Mister Burns: Work on how to engage people in front of you. Stage presence is everything. How you address the crowd with eye contact and body language. That comes in time, nobody is going to be able to understand that doing one show. Obviously your music and way with words is the most important but your demeanor means everything. You can be the most incredible lyricist on record but if you are stagnant on stage you will be doing yourself a disservice.

Photo courtesy of Ben Kennedy

VTHH: This is a question that comes up constantly in my VTHH work and I figure you're one of the best people to pose it to: what does the Vermont hip hop scene need in order to keep growing? What will take it to the next level?

Mister Burns: That's a great question and I am not sure I have the solution. VT Hip Hop has gone through waves. When there are non-artists making moves it seems to do the best but being a promoter is a thankless job and people tend to see the artists getting the shine and they either want to then be an artist or just give up (also losing money sucks).

Also not everyone is cut out to be a promoter and it can hurt the scene. When events like Sound Affects, Yo! BTV Raps and 3rd Thursdays and other weekly/monthly events were in full swing, it was great for the scene. People are always talking about how there is no community aspect or camaraderie in the Hip Hop scene, but that will always be the case. Hip Hop is competitive by nature and that's a good thing. I am down to do shows with whomever and put people on but I am still getting onstage showing that I am better than you.

I don't think that Hip Hop is ever going to be the top genre in VT, it's just not what the majority of people here support. The younger generation of Hip Hop artists are doing well with shows and support right now and that's great. Old heads like me can't be mad at that and get bitter. That's just how it works, when you are young and have no real responsibilities your fan base is the same. Once you get older and have those responsibilities your fan base does too and it's hard to get the support at shows like you used to. Damn, I think I'm talking about myself. What was the question?

VTHH: Amen. You're about to go on tour with some notorious miscreants. How did a respectable guy like yourself link up with juvenile delinquents like Jarv and Eyenine?

Mister Burns: Tell me about it. I lose my respectability every time I associate with those fools. Dillon doesn't have any friends so he flies up to tag along. I met Jarv when a teacher of his, who was a fan of Lynguistic, told me about this group of kids who rapped and were really good from Windsor. I was putting on a music festival in the Windsor area and agreed to have them do a short set.

Maiden Voyage blew my mind and we (the Lynguistic Civilians) put them on whatever shows we could to get them in front of people. When Jarv and I both started doing a more solo venture it only made sense we teamed up on shows and tours. We both have a demented sense of humor so it works well on the road. I have known Eyenine for a while through doing Rap Nights in Portland and Manchester since 2013 or so. Again, when I started going solo we did more shows together and work well on the road together too. We all rag on each other a lot, but all three of those guys are some of the most talented individuals I have ever been around.

Humble is one of the most universally respected emcees in the state; a true school disciple of Hip Hop and an upstanding citizen, too. When I got the chance to do a proper interview, I aimed to make the most of it and he was generous enough to accommodate that. What follows is a deep dive into both his work and his perspective.

VTHH: I've always thought of you as an integral, bedrock part of the 802 scene -- just here, like the mountains. But how did you actually wind up in the Vermont hip hop scene? What was your introduction to it like?

Humble: Word. I moved here in 99/2000. I had been rapping a little bit before then but mostly just kidding around with my homies. I was a drummer before that but didn’t have room for my kit or really other musicians to play with. This got me into sampling and production as well as emceeing for real. When I got here, there was a spot called Liquid Energy on Church St. There was a cypher there every Thursday night If I recall correctly. The shit was serious, you had to come correct with bars if you wanted to rap as well as confidence in your voice and approach.

I was honestly shocked how serious people were up here about rapping. After that spot closed suddenly I helped organize a cypher at Hectors every Wednesday. This is where I really cut my teeth and met inspiring local emcees. Most notably Travis Card and Forest. Their ability to freestyle, especially at that time, pushed me to get better and better. I also linked with 2nd Agenda at the time which taught me the power of live performance. Shout out to Source Unknown, The Loyalists, Dark Cloud, The Aztext, and especially Eye Oh You for the early VT inspiration.

VTHH: Is it safe to say that Reggae culture had just as much of an impact & influence on you as Hip Hop culture?

Humble: Yes. I came up going to venues like the West Indian Social Club in Hartford CT, Elite Ark in Brooklyn and Amazura in Queens. Heavy clubs that mostly only people from the Caribbean went to. It was a culture shock at first but I was readily embraced by most of the community. If you show respect and love for the music and know how to navigate unknown waters you can find new place and perspective. I always remember a quote written on an old record shop in New Haven, “make love and not war, cause war is ugly and love is lovely” a U-Roy quote I believe.

VTHH: When did you get your start freestyling? Do you have any advice for cats trying to improve, or is it mostly a matter of natural talent?

Humble: I started freestyling when I started rapping in around 99/2000. I didn’t actually write any rhymes until the mid 2000’s. To me the flow is the most important element of emceeing, outside of tone of voice then lyrics. I would flow to everything from 80’s dancehall beats to jungle beats to Havoc and Alchemist beats.

When I first started freestyling, I could get to a certain point without breaking the flow and got frustrated that I couldn’t go further. I just kept flowing until the dams and blockages in the river were washed away. The biggest thing that helped the movement of water is knowing the source. Connecting to the emotion or sentiment that grounds you in where your energy wells up. The other aspect is community and having people to cypher with. Once you tap in with a good circle of people it becomes group therapy and the possibilities become endless. At least lyrically.

VTHH: Who do you consider your influences, as an emcee?

Humble: Wu Tang, especially Ghostface, INS and Rza. Nas, Prodigy, Cormega, Sizzla, Josey Wales, Tenor Saw, Buju Banton, Crayz Walz, Chuck D, Elliot Smith, Kurt Cobain, Layne Staley, Big L, Big Pun, Tupac and many others.

VTHH: When you dropped Premonition, I was extremely impressed, that was such a well-rounded album. Was that an intentional LP project you had a vision for, or did that evolve as more of an audio journal of where you were at then?

Humble: I would say it lands somewhere in between the two. I was very focused on writing thematic material. The first album was all produced by Dave Mitchell, on the second round I wanted to feature all my favorite producers that I had personally linked with at the time. Actually having a relationship in real time is important to me, I’m not too involved in virtual reality.

I was inspired by the beats and beat makers who allowed me to have a clear window into myself. I wanted to keep the album topical as well as internal. I had a lot of ideas for concepts in my head kind of pour over. I guess in that way it is a personal journal, shout out to Sage Francis. Haha

VTHH: How was your creation process different for your latest album Good Company?

Humble: For me writing is all about catching a vibe. The beats inspire the landscape that the song creates. Mike (THEN WHAt) has been a long time friend and collaborator going back to the Bless The Child days. He is one of the producers that I know will provide the right inspiration.

I have learned to trust my instinct and go with the first rhymes, cadences or melodies that I hear. Meaning the first time I listen to the beat I utilize my initial thoughts. In following this process I got all of the beats on the album ahead of time but only listened to them one at a time. It took 3 or so listens to the beat to craft the song. I never skipped ahead or wrote when I wasn’t in the right space. It was a very different process than my other albums, but I am proud of how it turned out.

VTHH: How long did it take you to write "I am America" ? What kind of headspace where you in while you were crafting that?

Humble: It took about a week on and off to flesh it out. That song is my heart. I really focused, researched and fact checked myself on that one. It is highly inspired by the words of John Trudell and Marcus Garvey, as well as the treatment of people crossing the southern boarder. I wanted to highlight the contradiction of turmoil and harmony that marks our past and present. Genocide, slavery and oppression amidst life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. America means different things to different people. This is what ideally gives us strength in the real sense. Like the bundle of arrows in the eagles talons.

VTHH: Another song I'd love to ask you about is "Ancestral Burial Verse." That always seemed like a transmission from beyond, to me. Did that all come to you at once or did that take some time to carve out?

Humble: Oh boy. I had to go back and and listen to that one. That’s an instant download for sure...

The song is all about connecting the dots through past trauma and related influences there of. Everything I write about is from me, whether it be my own experience or that of someone close to me. Bridging the gap between the I and the other. For the lost loved ones and how we navigate with the burden of their passing. How we keep afloat and hope to inspire others to do so the same. This is why I love and am indebted to Hip Hop. The feeling you catch from an emcee that you know but can’t quite articulate. And it lets you feel less alone in the universe.

VTHH: How did the Old Gold connection come to be? He's one of the best producers in the state, to my ears.

Humble: We met through the homie Loupo. I went to his crib once we really connected and started to mash out the project. Being in the same room and co-creating a vibration is key. I can’t stress this enough. A lot of material on that project is from initial freestyles to beats. Some verse poetry over incredible beatscapes. The rainfall tune is the first one like that when we initially kicked it and hadn’t rained in many months. He is a good brother that I stay connected with.

VTHH: Do you think there will ever be another Bless The Child project?

Humble: Time will tell.

VTHH: Looking back, what are some of your favorite shows you've done?

Humble: Opening up for Gza and Masta Killah with 2nd Agenda was dope. I am a Wu fanatic so that was awesome. We did a couple shows with A Tribe Called Red, which were super powerful. The vibration that we built as BTC was undeniable. Every show would start slow and by the end everybody present was part of the energetic exchange. I think those dudes could really feel that.

The livest show though for me was opening up for People Under the Stairs during a full moon masquerade party at Arts Riot. That was with Agent Slacker, which was Tommy Alexander, Loupo and myself. It was one of the only times we performed the project and shit was popping off. The crowd was hyped and packed all night. People killed it, one of the best Hip Hop shows I ever have seen, let alone been a part of.

VTHH: As someone who's seen a lot of cyphers come and go -- and a farmer, too -- what advice do you have for artists trying to grow a community around them?

Humble: Showing up. That’s the most important thing, as well as good communication. Having common goals in mind from the outset is key just like any relationship. That takes time and space to grow. Laughing together and having fun is powerful medicine. Keeping it focused is the balance.

Photo by Grace Brissette

Big thanks to guest writer Humble Among

Kasuke reached out to me last year to record a song and as I am always open to collaborate with other artists, I gave him my email. I was pleasantly surprised by the track he sent me. It was dark and had a lot of energy. I recorded a verse and it became the song “RAP ARMAGEDDON” from his EP “BRAINDEAD.”

Since then, we shot videos together on the same day; “Paranoia” and “Empty Summer” were both crafted by the renaissance man known as Vego Harris, on the same date and in many of the same locations. He also released his first full album, “Dark Village”, and most recently, I directed a video for the song “Off Me” from that project. I see a lot in the kid. It was easy for me to accept the assignment of interviewing him.

Q: What got you started rapping/making music? Was there a single moment that you can recall?

Kasuke: I’ve been writing rhymes since about the 3rd grade actually. I didn’t record any of my stuff until about freshman year when I dropped a track called “Fuji” on SoundCloud. I recorded it with two tracks, one for the instrumental, and one for vocals. It was terrible! Ever since then, though, I’ve had a passion for dropping tracks.

Q: What/who are some of your artistic influences outside of music? (This can be movies, directors, cartoons, TV shows, whatever.)

Kasuke: I really started liking music in general when I first listened to Eminem at a very early age. As time went by, I started fading out of rap and started listening to rock, post hardcore, metal, deathcore, and all the little sub genres. That is the stuff that inspires a lot of my darker music. KoRn, Slipknot, and Marilyn Manson were some HUGE inspirations. I didn’t even really get back into listening to rap heavily until I discovered SESHOLLOWATERBOYZ, $uicideboy$, Lil Peep, and XXXTENTACION in like 2014-2015. They changed my life and I probably wouldn’t be rapping still if it wasn’t for them. Nowadays I listen to everything and try to use all art as inspiration, but outside of the music world I would definitely say sports, pro wrestling, video games, and anime/comics are some of the biggest inspirations. You can definitely hear it in a lot of my bars.

Q: Your new project “Dark Village” is very personal and seems to be a reference to the town we live in. What made you decide to make an album about Bellows Falls? 

Kasuke: It definitely is a reference to Bellows Falls. The reason I made the album is because of how big of an impact this town has had on my life. It has brought me some good, but it has also brought me A LOT of bad. It’s like the place is cursed. That’s the feeling I tried to channel on the album. I tried to break it into 3 parts. One part to show the good, one part to show the bad, and one part to show me overcoming it all. Anyone who lives or has lived in BF knows it’s VERY hard to make it out, but I hope the album can help inspire people to still chase their dreams and get out of here!

Q: You recently played your first show at Spanky’s Dive Bar. What was that like?

Kasuke: One word. AMAZING! Such a good atmosphere, such great people, and such a passion for music. Spanky is a great dude and I’m very excited to perform at the next hip hop show! 

Q: What are your thoughts on the Vermont Hip Hop scene?

Kasuke: My honest opinion on the Vermont scene is that it needs improvement. I will say though, the community is amazing and everyone works together, but a lot of people are on the same wave. Until we learn to grow and accept new kinds of rap instead of pressuring everyone to do the same boom bap hip hop style (which is still a great style) the scene won’t progress. That’s why I respect artists who do their own thing around here. 

Q: Being from a younger generation, how do you feel about the “old heads”? 

Kasuke: Same thing that applied to the last question applies here: MUSIC NEEDS TO EVOLVE. I can’t tell you how many old dudes message me or comment on my stuff trying to tell me I need to do it THIS way or THAT way. The funny thing is though, is when you click on their profile and they are recording with an old android with terrible quality and bad recycled bars. Just BE YOURSELF!

Q: What is your creative/recording process like? Do you write to a beat? Not write at all? Write verses and rewrite them compulsively? What’s your method?

Kasuke: My writing style changes all the time depending on what I’m working on. With Dark Village, I planned literally everything before the beats were even made. Before I wrote the lyrics I had an idea of what I wanted each song to be about.

Then I would get the beat and write. With EPs and random singles though, it’s usually beat first, then write. The mood/environment I’m recording in also plays a lot into the music that I make.

Performed by KASUKE Produced by DEF-I$IT Directed by Humble Among "Dark Village" is available now: https://open.spotify.com/album/5I0mprLngIMlvZpSncAQS7?si=z...

Q: You’ve been making beats lately. What has it been like to put on a different rap hat? Are there any other areas of creative space you would like to explore?

Kasuke: I decided to make my own beats because when you have the creativity to do whatever you want with the instrumental, it opens up so many doors and can give you so many different ideas. In the future I would definitely love to experiment with other genres. I’ve always loved metal and punk, I’ve just never met anyone around here into the idea of a band, but who knows what the future holds.

Q: What are some goals you would like to accomplish in the next year? Any new projects on the horizon?

Kasuke: I definitely want to try making noise outside the Vermont area. I want to spread my music and message. I also want to try to hit up more 802 artists for collaboration.

As for projects, I’ve been making a lot of stuff with DEF-I$IT who makes amazing beats so I highly suggest everyone checks him out. I also have a few EPs in the works, and the only thing I can say about them is that I produce a lot of the work on them. I’m always open for working on new projects though, so who knows what opportunities will present themselves to me.

Just Cauz exploded onto the scene with his Land of the Lost mixtape last year, but his story began back in the birthplace of hip hop. A recent transplant to the Green Mountains, his outsize personality, bulletproof flows and grown-man work ethic have opened a lot of doors for him. Get familiar with an artist who will be impossible to avoid in 2020…

VTHH: Land of the Lost had a dope throwback feel -- what were your inspirations while you were putting the project together?

JUST CAUZ: Land of The Lost was heavily influenced by the 90's to early 2000's rap and hip hop scene. While putting the project together I wanted to showcase all the talents that had influenced me over the years. For example, Talib Kweli, Biggie, Tupac, Nas, Jay-Z, The Roots, Wu-Tang, KRS One, Eric Sherman, Outcast, Eminem, Saigon, Papoose, Common, Mos Def, Common, Jean Grey, Immortal Technique just to name a few. We will be here all day if I list them all. I wanted to show people that rap isn't dead!

VTHH: Was it a culture shock coming to southern VT after growing up in NYC?

JUST CAUZ: It was a culture shock but in a great way. I had to get used to the way things where in Vermont. In the city, it’s very fast paced always on the move all the time, go go go, because you could do anything at anytime anywhere. It is the city that never sleeps after all. In Vermont there isn't really a hustle and bustle like there is in the city, and I like that but it will be missed. In Vermont you have to drive everywhere but that makes people come together and congregate, something that is sometimes hard to come by in the city.

VTHH: Has being in a tiny-ass state like Vermont changed your long-term strategy as an artist?

JUST CAUZ: No, if anything it has made me double down on all my goals, long term and short. To work with more people, as many as possible. To be introduced to new styles of music and new ways of thinking towards the creation of music. These things, plus cultivating great people and relationships, all will assist me in growing as an artist, which is the goal.

VTHH: What can listeners expect from you in 2020?

JUST CAUZ: Listeners can expect obviously more music but more collabs, newer sounds, different directions in music and otherwise, building relationships, networking, doing more music videos and upgrading my work as an artist. Trademarked, copy-written, getting more familiar with the business aspect of music rather than just making it, and finally trying to brand myself.

VTHH: How did the 4 Horsemen team come together?

JUST CAUZ: The 4 Horsemen came together out of the sheer love we have for this game called rap. We had been doing shows together in one capacity or another but there was one day we all hit the stage together at an impromptu performance at Magic Aountain, and as soon as we hit the stage I think all of us knew we had something that couldn't be explained. It was just a feeling of unity that couldn't be expressed with words! A couple of weeks later, thank you Raw Deff, he said the name ‘4 Horsemen’ and it just stuck, and you can say the rest is history.

VTHH: Do you think the internet creates more opportunities or makes it harder to stand out?

JUST CAUZ: I'm not sure on a definite answer, only because I'm not that far in my career to give one. I do know the internet definitely creates more opportunities for an artist by giving the artists an opportunity to showcase their music, or at least learn how. For example, putting your music on soundcloud, audiomack, iTunes, Pandora, Google play music, bandcamp, spotify and apple play to name a few, allows the artist to put their music up for free or for a premium. In other ways though it's damaging to an artist because the internet is flooded with artists on any and all platforms and if you want to be noticed, they've gotta sift through it all to find you!! Also I feel everyone is making music nowadays so the game is saturated with shit music because everyone is an artist. Unfortunately quantity over quality is the game now I feel!!

VTHH: Who are your role models in terms of an independent artist grind?

JUST CAUZ: Talib Kweli, Tech 9, Saigon, Common, Mos Def, Jean Grey, Immortal Technique, Masta Ace, Ren Thomas, Locksmith, Homie Sandman, Mad Sqwabilz, Denzel Porter & Chris Rivers. If yah dont know now you know! STAY READY! STAY EARLY! STAY WOKE! #EARLY

Photo courtesy of Kat Bergeron

Somehow, I managed to sleep on the duo of (rapper) Gingervitus and (producer/engineer) Flywlkr until the release of their NOVA EP earlier this year. It was one hell of a strong introduction — a massive wall of sound from a creative, confident team. It reminded me of discovering Alabaster Samovars or 99 Neighbors. Not that they sound anything like those two acts, but precisely because they sound so different from anything else in the BTV scene right now.

Naturally, I had to catch up with the young emcee and talk shop about how all this came together.

VTHH: Growing up in the middle of the BTV scene, what was your introduction to Vermont hip hop?

Gingervitus: My first introduction into the local scene didn’t come until later in high school when I met a few friends who were spitting just for fun and had formed their own group called The Pak. I can’t say that I was too informed about the scene at that point, but it seems like as social media and the accessibility to music has blown up, there are a lot of people I new growing up who are taking their shot at the scene.

VTHH: So you didn’t really have any local influences starting out?

Gingervitus: I’d say my biggest influences have came from elsewhere. Around the time that I was starting to get an interest in creating my own music and The Weeknd’s House Of Balloons mixtape actually opened my eyes to a dark, intoxicating and atmospheric sound that he was envisioning and it very much inspired me. These days, Future is also one of my biggest inspirations. His energy and style are unmatched.

VTHH: Who do you consider your biggest influences, as emcees?

Gingervitus: I’d say Future has been inspiring me for a long time. He rightly gets a lot of credit for the energy he brings but he’s honestly a sensational writer and has the most infectious music. Other than that, Lupe Fiasco inspires me with the kind of poet he is. His The Cool album the reason I love hip-hop. He uses the beat as an opportunity to tell a story.

VTHH: How did you link up with Flywlkr?

Gingervitus: Flywlkr and I have been friends since kindergarten at JFK in Winooski. It wasn’t until high school when we started putting together songs for fun on school computers and iPhones with GarageBand. Fly is the architect of our sound. Wildly creative and just insanely talented.

VTHH: Do you feel like you've found your lane with electronica-heavy tracks, or are there other sounds you'd like to explore on future projects and releases?

Gingervitus: We like to create everything through our own spectrum, and have been working with R&B and pop as well. As an artist, I believe you should always be pushing your boundaries and trying new types of songs and we’ll keep pushing as far as we can go. With NOVA, we set out to make songs that painted a dark and unforgiving picture of what these cold Vermont nights make you feel. We love putting people in a position to make you feel a vibe no matter what genre were in.

VTHH: Do you feel like you're translating your studio work to a live performance context, or has that always been a focus in your creative process?

Gingervitus: I feel like we’re definitely attempting to bridge a gap between live and studio performance, specifically with our use of live auto-tune. It’s so important to me that you can encapsulate the feeling that you have from your studio work on stage so that the audience can put themselves in that space as well. To me, auto-tune is an instrument to making a song exactly as you want it to be.

VTHH: What are your goals as an artist from here?

Gingervitus: For us, the next goal is to find ways to reach more people with our music so that we can play our own shows and design things our own way. I think it’d be amazing to share the vibe we want to create with huge, energetic crowds.

Photo courtesy of Sandi Omanovic

When I first heard Asah Mack spit, it was “Keys,” one of his early cuts, and, well, that shit absolutely bangs. It’s rare to have an artist show up so polished and hungry, and Mack is magnetic on the mic. His catalog since then has been all prime steak, much of which involves local production talent like Notation, Kurt Stewart, and David Chief.

He’s also got a genuine rap pedigree, as the son of NYC legend Craig “Flava in Ya Ear” Mack of Bad Boy Records. That’s a good PR hook, but it’s Asah Mack’s raw talent that’s going to win people over. Once this young man finally starts dropping full projects, he’s destined to make some noise. Get familiar.

VTHH: Who are the artists that inspired you to be the artist you're becoming in 2019?

Asah Mack: Definitely MF DOOM, Earl Sweatshirt, and mostly my father.

VTHH: Your catalog so far has been short and strong. Is that because you're being careful on quality control or because you're working on a secret LP project? Or both, I guess.

Asah Mack: It’s a bit of both, I like to put out shorter tracks so that people listen to them again, a formula that has been most effective.

VTHH: For artists trying to build a buzz, do you think dropping a steady stream of singles is important?

Asah Mack: Absolutely, if I’m putting out a project before the end of the year I want to drop as many tracks as I can to generate enough listeners for the bigger projects 

VTHH: When you envision the album projects you want to do, what LPs do you think influence your taste the most? Which classics are you trying to measure up to?

Asah Mack: I would have to say “Madvillany” by Doom, “1999” by Joey Bada$$ or Earl Sweatshirt’s “Some Rap Songs.”

VTHH: You have a very stripped-down style and you muster a huge amount of energy to power through those takes -- how do you try to channel that when you're writing out verses? Does it all show up at once?

Asah Mack: I channel up a lot of anger on a daily basis and instead of releasing that into something negative or violent I put it all into a track — I feel a great sense of relief after, I can’t explain it. 

VTHH: Do you ever test out material live before you record it?

Asah Mack: Always. Usually I’ll go over something I wrote live once or twice.

VTHH: How do you approach collaborating with producers? Do you like to work in the studio or have your verses written out in advance?

Asah Mack: I usually have verses written up before I record. It takes me quite a while to write, much longer than a studio session if I’m being honest.

VTHH: What has your impression of the Vermont scene been so far?

Asah Mack: I really like the energy, in most places where there’s a lot of competition I see a lot more support here.

VTHH: Who are some of your favorite local producers and rappers?

Asah Mack: I can’t name them all, but definitely my favorite producers are David Chief, Es-K and Kurt Stewart. As far as rappers, I gotta go with Jarv, Sasha Travis, Rivan C, and many others.

VTHH: Outside of Vermont, who do you want to work with in the near future?

Asah Mack: Chester Watson.

VTHH: What is your biggest Rap Goal for 2020?

Asah Mack: To do a huge show with all my friends in the Burlington area who pushed me and helped me reach my full potential.

Photo courtesy of Brett North Photography

For the first GET FAMILIAR of the Fall Season, it’s time to spotlight Fresh, a rapper who’s been turning heads with solid sixteens for a minute now. But it was his recent single with Philly underground legend Reef The Lost Cauze that cemented it: an interview was long overdue. As expected, this cat is gracious with his time, and he’s walked a long, interesting path to get here.

VTHH: Do you remember your personal introduction to hip hop? Did it grab you immediately or did becoming a rapper take time?

Fresh: My father introduced me to hip hop as a kid, I can still remember him rocking out to Rakim and Run DMC. Not only did I become a shell toe fan, but also a hip hop fan until the death. Growing up in Brooklyn music was all around. The 90's is when Biggie and Jay-Z made me want to pick up the pen and pad.

VTHH: After you started writing your own raps, what convinced you could pursue that as a career?

Fresh: I been writing since I was little, but it wasn’t until 2010 after I got injured playing pro basketball overseas, that I decided to get serious about music. I never intended on it being a career, it was just a hobby that I was very passionate about. It's still crazy to me knowing this is actually my job now .

VTHH: Looking back, what helped you find your own lane and understand what set you apart from other artists?

Fresh: I found my lane honestly just by living an eventful life.  Being raised in Brooklyn I saw and learned a lot from the streets, so I try to use that in my music without glorifying all the bad. I use music as a way to tell my life story, which was filled with a lot of wild moments. Where most artist boast about fictional things in their music, I legit talk things I have seen or done. That's a hard thing to do and I feel that's where I stand out from a lot of artist.

VTHH: What was your process like creating GrindWork 4?

Fresh: Grindwork 4 was by far my toughest project to create, it took a little over a year because I dealt with the loss of my grandmother. Once I got in my groove again, I knew the vibe I wanted and switched up my flow and approach. I picked a bunch of VT artists to do features with, and all of the guys slayed, making this project feel more like an album . This mixtape is highly saturated with features because I've also been working on my "Dougie" album dropping sometime 2020. Over the years Grindwork has become more of a lifestyle than a slogan. Everytime I hear someone yell it at a show its makes all the time and money invested so worth it.  

VTHH: What was your introduction to the Vermont hip hop scene?

Fresh: I originally got introduced to the VT hip hop scene way back, I believe, in 2012 when I first met Yung Breeze, Sirchobangz and Flex45 at my homeboy Kamikaze’s house in Bennington.  We began making music and have been connected since. I moved away back home to Brooklyn, where I started the Grindwork movement. I came back on the scene about 3 years ago to Street Religion and things instantly began moving up from there, it's been a wild non stop journey but I have met a lot of VT’s finest along the way. I'm from Brooklyn but I owe most of my music success to Vermont.

VTHH: What can people expect from the Four Horsemen supergroup? Tours, mixtapes, energy drink sponsorships?

Fresh: The Four Horsemen has a lot in store. We came together as 4 unique solo artists who were always rocking shows alone, but we combined one day and realized we had something special that the games been missing. The group members are Sirchobangz, Flex45 and Just Cauz, we are currently working on a project that will be released on all digital platforms about 6 songs in and even got a feature with Causin Effect. We’re about 6 months in as a group and have been non-stop, between shows and working on tons of individual as well as group music.

We are trying to figure out time around our work schedules so we can do a short tour, but that doesn't stop us from rocking a stage somewhere in New England weekly. As of right now there haven’t been any sponsorship offers but we are working so hard who knows what the future has in store for the Horsemen, honestly I'm excited myself to see.

VTHH: Do you feel like there's a clear roadmap for independent rappers to make moves and level up, or are you mostly learning face-first?

Fresh: I feel like independent artists have all the tools to be successful, it's just realizing you have to invest in yourself and be dedicated to your craft and your brand. I'm an 80s baby, I have seen so many independent artist and labels thrive its like they laid the roadmap, the hard thing is finding your lane and capitalizing.

I didn’t know anything about the game when I first started but I was fortunate to have people in my circle who did and along the way I learned a little bit from alot of people. It's not an easy game to get into and if you’re looking to get rich overnight you’re mistaken, you got to do it for the love of the music the rest will fall in place 

Debut single off Fresh's "Dougie" album "Time is Money" Ft Reef The Lost Cauze

VTHH: Props on the single with Reef The Lost Cauze. Who would you like to collaborate with in 2020?

Fresh: Who would I like to feature with is tough. Of course, all members of the Horsemen. Jibba and I been talking for a while so that's coming . Would love to collab with SkySplitter on a beat featuring Mr.Burns . D.FRENCH and Kasidon. I also have a few people I have already collabed with before but hope to collab with again, like Yung Breeze and Raw Deff aka Cognac Cousins, or Jun Fargo. Also working on my 2nd Industry feature but I cant speak on it until its final ... I want to work with a lot more people that I haven’t from the area, I'm open to making something dope for anybody interested.

Stresselbee has been a central figure in the Brattleboro hip hop scene for many moons now. From his distinguished tours of duty with a kaleidoscope of groups & styles to his increasingly polished solo work, he’s not only prolific, he’s an instigator. The following conversation does little justice to the extent of his catalog and contributions, but we had a great conversation just the same. Dig it.

VTHH: This is easily the laziest question I’ve ever written, but: how would you summarize your long resume in the 802 hip hop scene?

Stresselbee: After freestyling our way through high school, Doppelgänger (Jared Tarbell) and I got together with Swift Gryphin (JD Keiser) to form People of a Mad Theory. That was around 2004-ish, back when we couldn’t count bars and didn’t know which end of a mic to plug in. After messing around for a year or so, we put out our first album, and although it had that home recording sound, and you could tell this WAS our first rodeo, it wasn’t without a certain adolescent charm.

After that we all went in separate directions, JD to California and eventually into the loving arms of Universal Audio (where he is working still) and Jared to start a loose group of rotating beatsmiths and emcees which would become Light Pockets.

I went on to collaborate with Hoarsehed and form Epidemiks, which enjoyed a good run of albums, videos, and shows in the southern Vermont and surrounding area. I also put out an album with The Aardvarcheologist, featuring countless local emcees and artists, called the Vermonster Mash Mixtape. All this time we remained frequent collaborators on all of our separate projects.

VTHH: How did the Friends Like These project emerge from that? Was this a re-union of sorts?

Stresselbee: Doppelganger and I never really stopped working on our own tracks. Over the past six or seven years, we’ve gotten together whenever possible to throw down verses on each other’s production. After letting 20-30 tracks go through the rock tumbler that is time, this winter we took the smoothest and prettiest of the gems and finished them off to make the new album.

Our good friend Drunx, the wasted professor, shot and edited an amazing music video to accompany our first release, “Shades of Gray,” and is releasing the album on his European label Fugazy Entertainment.

VTHH: How did the connection with Drunx happen?

Stresselbee:  I met Drunx in Amsterdam about 10 years ago, through a friend of a friend, and immediately hit it off over a mutual love of all things hip hop and alcoholic. Since then he’s been to Vermont three times to shoot videos for me, the most recent one being Shades of Gray. Its funny, we joke that we see each other more often than my friends down the road. I actually just got back from there, I went over for carnival and to paint his house in exchange for the video. Pretty good deal on my end, it’s good to know people and network when/however possible.

VTHH: The Eyedos guest verse really fits that "Shades of Gray" pocket like a velvet chopping glove. Does your connection with him go way back?

Stresselbee: Yeah, his verse is dope. He actually sent us a verse for this project like 5 years ago, over a completely different beat. We ended up cutting the track, but we later noticed he used the phrase “shades of gray” in his verse, and it was the same tempo as the “Shades” track, so we laid it over the beat and it sounded slick. But when Dos heard it, he thought it was outdated and he could do better so he re-wrote and came back with what’s on there now, and it came out extra sick! The evolution of a song can go unexpectedly.

I’ve been working with Eyedos for several years now, I met him through Doppelgänger and began trading beats and verses with him immediately. When he started up the MET crew I was happy to jump on the bandwagon, even if the hip hop I usually make is more goofy/party type shit and those dudes come with it pretty hard. I love the shit he does for me though, because he always seems to capture the theme or feel or essence of whatever a particular song is grabbing at. He’s like liquid, he becomes the shape of whatever you put him in.

VTHH: As Epidemiks, you guys always seemed to have a blast rapping, and yet stylistically your releases were all over the place. Did you guys just grow up listened to every subgenre at once?

Stresselbee: Haha yeah, between the two of us we pretty much rocked out to every type of music out there. Whatever I listen to, I always hear something that makes me think ”damn, that would sound dope with some boom bap drums and verses over it.”

Whether it was 1930’s mills brothers for the smoke rings track, or some acapella “gypsy woman” shit, Freddie King blues, Guns’n’Roses, whatever, nothing is out of the question. I’m always looking for something new or different, where you wouldn’t necessarily think “that’s some hip hop shit” and then we got Tweed in on the production tip, and that dude is a walking encyclopedia when it comes to music. He started tossing beats at us that blew my mind.

VTHH: What was the local scene like for you when you were starting out? Were there local artists in other genres who inspired you?

Stresselbee: We were lucky enough to have a strong following from the beginning. There wasn’t a whole lot of live hip hop going on in southern VT when we started making music. Our first show was the Hip To The Hops #1 up at Magic Mountain ( I think). From that point on, people always showed up and packed the house. We always gave a lot of CDs out and really just tried to get the music in as many hands as possible, and people dug it. Plus our party vibe really made people want to come out and boogie. As for other local artists who inspire me, I’d have to say The Devil Makes Three. I’ve been going to see them live for years, and got to watch them grow from a small VT/Cali band into something much bigger. I know it’s not hip hop, but nothing gets me going like those guys.

VTHH: You've been involved in a lot of really effective low-budget videos over the years. What advice do you have for artists plotting on their own DIY videos for the first time?

Stresselbee: Almost all our videos were shot by Drunx the wasted professor. It pays to know someone in the industry, especially one as talented as him. As for advice, I’d say try to come up with something that’s gonna set your video apart from the 100,000 others that get uploaded everyday. It doesn’t have to be big budget, just different. And don’t be afraid to reach out to people when you see something you like! I saw a paper stop motion video Mellow Music Group put out, and reached out to the artist (Eric Power) on a whim. He ended up doing my video for “Animalude” for an incredible price!

The Aardvarcheologist - Animalude feat. Stresselbee from Eric Power on Vimeo.

VTHH: That video was crazy good, I am still heated I couldn’t get that some bigger coverage.

Stresselbee:  It’s all good, that track made it on that “Spare the Rock, Spoil the Kids” show or whatever in Texas. It’s on Saturday mornings …. biggest exposure I ever got was on a Saturday morning children’s show out of Austin. Yeah that project was fun as hell to work on, I’ve been cooking up a follow up to that album, kinda part two in the same vein, Vermont spotlight type of shit.

VTHH: Has you definition of "making it in music" changed over the years? It seems like, with Epidemiks at least, you guys really embraced being local and indie.

Stresselbee: I guess to me making it would mean quitting my day job. If I had all the time in the world to focus on hip hop I could really go nuts! But all I ever really wanted was to be heard. I thought I had some clever silly shit to spit that might make a few heads chuckle, but always tried to bring it around by the end and impart some type of message. And I’ll tell ya, the first time I was on stage and the whole front row knew all my lines, like better than even I did, that was the best feeling I’ve ever had. I felt like I had really reached a few people, even if it’s just a bunch of cats from New England, and to me that was “making it” right there.

I often say that interviews here are “long overdue” — man, seldom has that ever been so true. Yung Breeze has been a force of nature here for years now, but 2018 has seen him making careful, long-term career moves…most especially, the So.802 Records machine and his upcoming solo debut, Sofia Grace.

Breeze is a seasoned operator with a tidal wave of new material on the way, and we had a lot to talk about, so let’s get to it. All will be explained.

VTHH: Do you feel like your whole career so far has been leading up to the album you're working on right now?

VTHH: Absolutely. Everything in my career good or bad, shows, mixtapes, singles, features, etc., showed me what and what not to do with the album, in the process of making the album, what songs will hit, what songs showcase the most multi market skills. And to be able to reminisce on certain things, events and songs that lead me to think, "maybe I should start my own original body of work," makes it so much more fun and easier to do.

VTHH: Were you aware of other local artists in your area when you were starting out?

Yung Breeze: I started off knowing artists like March Davis, f/k/a Neffy, and lived in the same town as Eyedos for years. I didn't start to get put on to other artists until I started taking it more serious, then I started hearing about some of the heavy hitters like Causin Effect, Raw Deff, XP, S.I.N.siZZle, Learic, Rajnii, Bar None The Best, and many more I know I am forgetting.

VTHH: How did the Street Religion team come together?

Yung Breeze: Big shout out my Brother Samuel Martin, AKA GQ. I was always into rapping and making music, especially the recording and quality aspect of it. Me, GQ, my bro Trugame N.O, my boy RG, who is from Massachusetts, and my bro Zeus, who all do music there together, we put out a small compilation of work that we called the "Cereal & Milk" Series. The name Street Religion and the slogan "Grab A Gun & Pray" has a huge meaning to it deeper than what it looks like, and after playing around with the name in songs, realizing this was bigger than just a name, it was becoming a whole Coalition, and a household name around my area of southern VT (Brattleboro), I noticed I can do more with it.

RG is still doing a lot of music and visuals on his own path right now, Zeus i haven't heard from, I'm still in clear contact with GQ And Trugame N.O, but as far as artists in the group are concerned, the people who represent the brand and label Street Religion consists of Jun Fargo, and Raw Deff. And that falls under the whole So.802 umbrella with Causin Effect & Selfish Presley, which not only helps with SR, but creates a whole machine to work with, and create with each other.

VTHH: What kind of goals does the So.802 team have for 2019?

Yung Breeze: The Coalition - Causin Effect x Raw Deff x Yung Breeze. A lot of crazy singles and hopefully a project with all of us on it. I'm hoping to by the beginning to mid 2019, Causin Effect will have their second project ready to record so I can do all the engineering and mastering behind it, my album Sofia Grace will be done and ready, Selfish Presley will have a whole project out, Raw Deff and Self will be done with The Others 2. And Jun Fargo, who is the harmony glue to all this, should have his project Here & Now 3 finished and ready to go. I think our all around goal though is to get a bit more visual with things, hence why "BAD COOL AID" was created.

VTHH: Looking back, do you feel like there was a turning point in your catalog where everything came together for you?

Yung Breeze: For the most part, everything from when I started doing music even for fun, to taking it serious now, has been consistent,  and as far as my craft, it's been only getting better.  But when I started the Golden Era mixtapes and the "body of work" feeling where every song was able to be played with no skipping, that was when I'm like OK, I can go all in and actually let my creative control take over. And it's honestly got to the point I couldn't tell you how many original songs, remixes, or features I've done. The list is far too long.

VTHH: "Do It For My City" is flames. What was the process like when that came together? Did you guys feel like you'd nailed something special?

Yung Breeze: THE DAY BEFORE, I had met up with Gringo Montega (FKA Vazy) at a club in Keene NH, he was celebrating just getting married to his wife. That night he had told me that him and Jibba “The Gent” had just gotten a studio up and running and that I should pop out to record that next day, which was music to my ears because I have never really had one of those in the studio full fledged no home set up situations. I pulled up the next day, Gringo was in the process of making the beat and I found something that allowed me to do something semi multi market and not keep it just gritty or boom bap, but to expand the beat a bit more.

Everything up to that point was just organic, I got there and laid out my hook and verse that same day, Vazy continued to build around the beat to the sound of the song, and within a day or two, I came back to realize that Jibba blessed the track and it was going to be on Jibba’s album, which then made me feel like I caught the eye of someone who thinks of me as a great addition to their album. Song is super dope and super timeless.

VTHH: Will you revisit the classic boom bap x bars recipe of the Golden Era 3 mixtape anytime soon?

Yung Breeze: The bar heavy east coast feel is the music that I am most comfortable doing, so of course I plan on doing that with a mixtape I'm working on called Election Day 2, which is a follow up to the first Election Day tape. Doing Golden Era 4 is a must, I have so much fun with those tapes, especially when I can explore new bar patterns and ways to tweak my flow. And now that I have most of the multi-market tracks done for the Sofia Grace LP coming soon, I can incorporate the east coast flow in the second half of the album recording process, and will be in the album a lot more dominant than the multi-market music.

VTHH: Is your focus on versatility about challenging yourself as an artist, or is it more of a business strategy? Both?

Yung Breeze: I love music whole-heartedly. Everything about it. Anything that I've ever did with this music to step my game up, or anybody in So802’s game up, was solely for the culture and bettering myself and the VT hip hop community as artists. I noticed that with the versatility, it goes a very long way and I can create a business strategy out of it, but I tend to want to focus more on the making music and having fun part, and letting all of that come, too.

I did a lot of free features and shows before I started charging for it. And the reason why I charge now would be the same reason anyone would charge, but with me it's always been culture first. And I take pride in the multi market artist, versatility aspect, I really love music so anything I can do outside of the realm and the box I'm gonna do.

Yung Breeze iTunes - https://itunes.apple.com/album/id1401830731?ls=1&app=itunes

Eyedos has been on a killing spree lately. The emcee / producer has been pushing himself these past few years, and his output has been both prolific and ambitious. With the release of the latest JynxINC LP, Devil May Care Too, I wanted to interview the artist about his path — then realized I already did that, earlier this year. So, with apologies to the beast, here is our conversation about underground hip hop and indie hustle.

VTHH: What was your introduction to hip hop?

Eyedos: I was exposed to a plethora of Folk, Hard & Southern Rock very early in my youth.  I was then introduced to Hip Hop music at the tender age of 10, started writing at 12-13 but didn't record until 16 with influences like Wu-Tang Clan, Gravediggaz, Cypress Hill, Canibus, Boogie Down Productions, Busta Rhymes, Nas, Rakim, Kool G Rap, Beastie Boys, Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Onyx and Insane Clown Posse.  The first three albums I ever owned as well as listened to front-to-back, would have to be Wu's "Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)", Cypress Hill's "Black Sunday" and Onyx's "Bacdafucup".

VTHH: Your style is so detailed and visual - what is your writing process? Do you need to charge the batteries up or is it always there?

Eyedos: I'm an eclecticist/metaphysicist with a prolific, multi-syllabic, stream-of-consciousness writing style (just wanted to say that because I like how it sounds).  In most cases, I'll jot down a whole list of one-liners and test them out on people for reactions, that's how I come up with some of my best punchlines. Anything new or different to me is a divine afflatus, visiting new places sparks inspiration but I also have a symbiotic relationship with my computer so I find the motivation to make music whether I'm exploring a new city or kicking it in the studio.  Movies, anime and video games inspire my off-the-wall references and cynosural presence and vocal tone. Smoking tree and freestyling before I write also gets the creative juices flowing.

VTHH: Where do you want JynxINC to be in five years?

Eyedos: I want my band to be able to drop an album annually, go on a regional (3+ state) tour at least once a year, release album themed comics, have a music video for every song (official video or otherwise).

VTHH: What was your process assembling a monumental LP like Guerrilla Bars?

Eyedos: I had a couple songs recorded from a year prior to the album's release and it took me another 10-12 months to finish it up.  A few thousand dollars less in my account and a handful of legendary features later, I'd say I was pretty psyched about the outcome. Unlike my next solo project which will have a more predominant selection of my own instrumentals, Guerrilla Bars was built around the influence of other producers, so the production time and beat gathering was the easiest part of the process.

VTHH: Was it difficult corralling an album full of posse cuts for that Minds Eye Tribe LP? Is that something you'd do again?

Eyedos: Rounding up the crew was easy but getting everybody on the same page was another story.  Some of the members were going through drastic changes in their lives like a passing relative, a divorce and even a marriage, hence why the album took over a year to complete.  The super-group consists of a few emcees I know from southern VT as well as a few I met when I moved to Burlington, with the exception of one artist/producer in Toronto and another out of Colorado.

VTHH: As someone who wears a lot of hats -- promoting, producing, engineering and being a prolific artist yourself -- what would like to outsource the most? Are there aspects of the game you'd prefer to never touch again?

Eyedos: Booking agent, web developer and copywriter.  I'll always need help from professionals like these. I've done some booking and am fully capable, it's just so time consuming when trying to juggle that with everything else.

VTHH: You and Krypto Man have been successfully networking outside of Vermont for a long damn time. What advice do you have for younger artists?

Eyedos: Surround yourself with people you look up to, ask them if you can do anything for them, regardless of what it is (show them you are a team player and willing to sacrifice a bit of your ego to help them).  Always think about your current Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats. What strengths do you have but don’t enjoy doing? Maybe there’s an opportunity to outsource that so you can focus on strengthening a weakness you want to develop or enjoy doing.  Being able to identify a threat will also help you avoid possible disastrous events.

VTHH: What advice do you have for local artists who want to reach outside of their scene?

Eyedos: Go to music venues outside of your state and network with as many promoters, producers, DJ's and artists as possible.  Some artists you look up to are more approachable than you think so don't be afraid to confront them, pitch ideas, book venues or ask for a feature.  Never HESITATE and always NEGOTIATE. People want to see you invest in yourself so take the time to carve your niche, save up money and market your product.  Introduce yourself at every event and be humble, nobody likes a swollen ego.